Alright so, first of all, I'm very happy to discover that you didn't just disappear on us here and I appreciate your responses. I do, however, want to keep the discussion focused on one issue and so I'm not going to respond to this point for point as I normally would. Suffice it to say, as you observed, we are mostly in agreement with some important but relatively minor difference that I feel like might actually be mostly semantic in nature.
So, you seem to be a touch contradictory here but whether you are or not depends on just what you are meaning by "his spirit lived".
I'm trying not to read anything into what you've said but my previous experience would seem to indicate that you've flipped your meaning of death right in the middle of the sentence here. You start by agreeing that death is a separation and that spirit death would be a separation from God and then by the end of the sentence you are saying that his spirit lived in the sense that it didn't cease to exist, which isn't what it means to live. My watch exists but it isn't alive and there isn't anyone's spirit that will ever cease to exist. The question isn't salvation vs. oblivion but salvation vs. existence in Hell apart from God.
Let me give a try to explain what I think life is: First God is LIFE. He gives it in measures to human beings; therefore, there is a living spirit and a living body and when the two were joined then man became a living soul.
For a human to totally die, the body and the soul would have to be lifeless and obliterated. I happen to think this happens in the Lake of Fire. Another topic. Well this hasn't happened yet.
Well, Jesus had a living spirit [happens that God gave of his Spirit to Jesus without measure making him equal with God]. The Spirit of God was also associated with a living mortal body who entered the world through the womb of Woman as promised in Genesis 2. Jesus was spiritually God. God the Spirit did not die when Jesus died physically on the cross.
So, what's the mystery of the body of Jesus which required resurrection from physical death? It was the living image of God created for God's use within his creation and first mentioned in Genesis 1. Who used this living image created by God first? The Father LORD God used it. It was a supernatural image associated with the living invisible Spiritual God. When God the Spirit appeared bearing his living Supernatural body he became a soul.
Did you know God had a soul? God the Spirit became a walking talking being dwelling among men at times.
Leviticus 26:11-13a And I will set my tabernacle [dwelling place] among you: and
my soul shall not abhor you. And
I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
I am the LORD your God ...
Do you see the truth? When men said they saw God, they were referring to that living bodily supernatural form God was using. God was not the body. It was merely created for his use to fellowship among men. It is an eternal body which cannot die for God sustains it.
Now, back to Jesus. Jesus was God and he bore that same living image which the Father had, but its essence was of flesh and mortal.
When his body died, God the Spirit appearing as, the begotten Son, did not die.
How might God the Spirit have given all of the spirit and all things of God? Can God be put in a box? No ... but God can give things over time as needed. Jesus was not denied anything but he did not know everything instantly. God shared at his will.
Now Jesus is like the Heavenly Father. They are each unique personages representing the ONE invisible God.
It is my understanding of the scripture that Christ died in every way that any righteous person has ever died. His spirit was first separated from the Father (
Matthew 27:46) and shortly after His spirit left His physical body (
Matthew 27:50). He then spent three days in the grave, in what He called "Paradise", which is the place of the righteous dead and which is called elsewhere "Abraham's Bosom". The whole reason this place existed in the first place is because the righteous dead could not yet go to be with the Father because the atonement for sin had not yet been made. Christ, having been Himself the atoning sacrifice went, as the scripture you cited states, and preached unto the spirits in "prison" (prison being a figure of speech there). Then, as the other scripture you cite tells us, we find out that as of His resurrection, Jesus had not yet ascended to the Father, which He did shortly thereafter. (We know this because He asked Mary not to touch Him the morning of the resurrection but then later that same day He met the disciples and issued no such instruction.) Thus, for three whole days, Jesus was separated from both from God the Father and any sort of physical body and was therefore truly dead in every sense.
I just don't see how Jesus, God the Son, was ever separated from God the invisible Spirit. Isaiah 43:11 tells us succinctly: I, even I, Am the LORD; beside me there is no Savior. IOW, God is the Savior ...
BUT I do see Jesus as an individual of the God Head as much as I perceive the Father LORD/YHWH is an individual of the God head. For the Father and the Son each have their own heavenly bodies now.
One day our Risen Lord will introduce the saints to the supernatural eternal LORD Father. When we have seen them, we have seen the invisible God's chosen visible presence. I Timothy 6:14-17. ... which in his times shall show us who is the blessed and only Potentate, King of kings, and Lord of lords, Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto who no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power everlasting.
Jesus did not have immortality for he was sent to die. He received it after he finished his mission. It was the Father that lived in unapproachable light from the beginning. The LORD shielded Moses from its danger as he approached in all his glory and only let Moses see his back parts clearly as he retreated. Jesus will introduce the saints to the Father.
Now, where was Jesus before he came as the begotten Son?
He was the WORD who was God and was with God and he shared the bodily glory with the Father LORD. I know this from a prayer Jesus spoke.
John 17:4-5 I [Jesus] have glorified thee [Father God] on earth: I have finished the work you gave me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self
with the glory I had with [shared with]
thee before the world was.
Just like Jesus said: When you have seen me you have seen the Father. I think the Father could have said: When you have seen me you have seen the pre-incarnate image of the Messiah.
How were the Father and the Son both God? They both had complete access to all things of the Spirit. They each bore the living image God created for his personal use... and He knew he would use it repeatedly. That's why He said: Let us make mankind after our image. ONE image representing the ONE God as two unique individuals.
So sorry Clete. I ramble on because I have so much I want to say. I hope this was not a confusing post.