James 1:1 refutes MAD

[andyc]

So when did the church begin?

Mad is rather complicated to understand, but then again it has to be in order to make all their ridiculous theories make any sense to them.
The first thing you need to understand is that it is impossible to believe in mad if you accept that the entire new testament is for us today. To get around this, they only accept a few of Paul's writings as having direct relevance to believers today. Their bible is just a few sheets of paper lol

And so when they see the book of James mentioned, they interpret everything in it as not being relevant to them. One other humorous bit of info, some of them are KJV only, because a few of their views fall apart unless read from the KJV.

These guys have spent years duck taping their theology together, and it takes a while to figure it all out. Eventually you come to the realisation that you're dealing with a modern day form of gnosticism. Religion of the flesh.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The first thing you need to understand is that it is impossible to believe in mad if you accept that the entire new testament is for us today. To get around this, they only accept a few of Paul's writings as having direct relevance to believers today. Their bible is just a few sheets of paper lol

The giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, including Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam, taught that the doctrine contained in the Jewish epistles (Hebrews thrugh Jude) applies to the Body of Christ.

In fact, J.C. O'Hair wanted nothing to do with the teaching that the epistles of Peter and James are not for this age, as witnessed by his words here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Today many in the Mid Acts camphave abandoned the teaching of the giants of Mid Acts Dispensationalism on this subject and teach that the Twelve Apostles were not members of the Body of Christ. I am Mid-Acts and I believe that the doctrine found in the Jewish epistles does apply to those in the Body of Christ.

 

[Tambora]

MAD reject this and say Israel is only Israel of the flesh

MAD certainly does recognize the distinction between Israel and the BOC, just as scripture does.

and the body of Christ are only Gentile believers.

MAD does not believe that.

 

[patrick jane]

So every single MADist believes the body of Christ or the church has Jews and Gentiles together?

1 Corinthians 12:13-14 KJV - 13 [FONT=&quot]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 For the body is not one member, but many.[/FONT]

 

[Danoh]

No they don't, point blank. They believe the church started with Paul and Peter, James and John taught the gospel of the circumcision to Jews only. There is a hard and fast division between Jew and Gentile. I'll let others chime in because you seem to be an oddball.

Lol - if anyone is the oddball MAD on here, that'd be me - for I do not hold various of the views of STP, and most (not all) other MADs on here hold to.

But on this issue; nope - you are off, Epoisses.

The Mid-Acts distinction on that is the distinction between Israel over the Gentiles of the Earth...

And God's Heavenly Creature: the Body of Christ, over the Angelic Realm.

The Body of Christ is comprised of formerly lost Jews and Gentiles this side of God's temporarily set aside plan for the Earth thru a redeemed Israel over said Gentiles on the Earth one day.

Romans 14:5 towards ya.

 

[Danoh]

So is the body of Christ and the church the same entity to MADists?

Actually, Israel is two assemblies as one - old testament saints and new testament saints.

Both concern the earth.

In contrast, the Body is also an assembly.

Not new testament but Mystery.

And the Spirit is involved in both.

But the Body's realm is the Heavenly realm.

The erroneous distinction of Israel and the Church is an Acts 2 distinction that many have never bothered to examine - both Israel and the Body are...a Church...or Assembly of called out people.

Rom. 14:5.

 

[Epoisses]

Obviously MADists have some type of overlapping views when it comes to Israel. It's impossible to keep up with every flavor of Dispy.

The traditional view that has served the church well for 2000 years is still the best where there are only two dispensations being the dispensation of law or the old testament and the dispensation of grace or the new testament. Israel is made up of believers and unbelievers just like Gentiles include believers and unbelievers. The body of Christ or the church would include believing Jews and believing Gentiles who both partake of and are under the new covenant promise. Unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles are both excluded from the new covenant promise. This model fits with every verse of scripture without needing to be shoe-horned to make it fit. Peter, James and John were all under grace. The dispensation of grace never comes to an end.

Peter - But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11

James - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. James 4:6

John - John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace,...The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev. 1:4;22:21

 

[Danoh]

Obviously MADists have some type of overlapping views when it comes to Israel. It's impossible to keep up with every flavor of Dispy.

The traditional view that has served the church well for 2000 years is still the best where there are only two dispensations being the dispensation of law or the old testament and the dispensation of grace or the new testament. Israel is made up of believers and unbelievers just like Gentiles include believers and unbelievers. The body of Christ or the church would include believing Jews and believing Gentiles who both partake of and are under the new covenant promise. Unbelieving Jews and unbelieving Gentiles are both excluded from the new covenant promise. This model fits with every verse of scripture without needing to be shoe-horned to make it fit. Peter, James and John were all under grace. The dispensation of grace never comes to an end.

Peter - But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11

James - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. James 4:6

John - John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace,...The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Rev. 1:4;22:21

Lol - in other words you asked just so you could get on your same old soap box, once more - "the traditions of men."

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8 towards ya.

 

[Epoisses]

Lol - in other words you asked just so you could get on your same old soap box, once more - "the traditions of men."

Nevertheless, Rom. 5:8 towards ya.

Peter, James and John all preached grace which blows every dispensational loser back to the stone ages.

You have no answer for that, just admit it! You believe in lies and fairy tales.

John Hoagie is a fitting representative for your kind - fat, bloated and full of hot air.

 

[Epoisses]

Mad is rather complicated to understand, but then again it has to be in order to make all their ridiculous theories make any sense to them.
The first thing you need to understand is that it is impossible to believe in mad if you accept that the entire new testament is for us today. To get around this, they only accept a few of Paul's writings as having direct relevance to believers today. Their bible is just a few sheets of paper lol

And so when they see the book of James mentioned, they interpret everything in it as not being relevant to them. One other humorous bit of info, some of them are KJV only, because a few of their views fall apart unless read from the KJV.

These guys have spent years duck taping their theology together, and it takes a while to figure it all out. Eventually you come to the realisation that you're dealing with a modern day form of gnosticism. Religion of the flesh.

Amen.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Peter, James and John all preached grace which blows every dispensational loser back to the stone ages.

Sir Robert Anderson, considered by many as being the father of modern Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, taught that all who are saved in every dispensation are saved in only one way--by grace through faith.

The Mid-Acts Dispensationalists teach that the present dispensation began during the Mid-Acts period. When do you say it began and what evidence can you give to support your opinion?

Thanks!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The first thing you need to understand is that it is impossible to believe in mad if you accept that the entire new testament is for us today. To get around this, they only accept a few of Paul's writings as having direct relevance to believers today. Their bible is just a few sheets of paper lol

The giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, including Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam, taught that the doctrine contained in the Jewish epistles (Hebrews thrugh Jude) applies to the Body of Christ.

In fact, J.C. O'Hair wanted nothing to do with the teaching that the epistles of Peter and James are not for this age, as witnessed by his words here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Today many in the Mid Acts camphave abandoned the teaching of the giants of Mid Acts Dispensationalism on this subject and teach that the Twelve Apostles were not members of the Body of Christ. I am Mid-Acts and I believe that the doctrine found in the Jewish epistles does apply to those in the Body of Christ.

 

[Epoisses]

Sir Robert Anderson, considered by many as being the father of modern Mid-Acts Dispensationalism, taught that all who are saved in every dispensation are saved in only one way--by grace through faith.

The Mid-Acts Dispensationalists teach that the present dispensation began during the Mid-Acts period. When do you say it began and what evidence can you give to support your opinion?

Thanks!

Do you believe that Gentiles who believe in Christ are under the new covenant promise found in Jer. 31:31-34 and reiterated by Paul in Heb. 8:6-13?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you believe that Gentiles who believe in Christ are under the new covenant promise found in Jer. 31:31-34 and reiterated by Paul in Heb. 8:6-13?

Of course not!

The New Diatheke which applies to Gentiles is the gospel:

http://twonewcovenants.com/covenant/covenant3.html

 

[Epoisses]

Of course not!

The New Diatheke which applies to Gentiles is the gospel:

http://twonewcovenants.com/covenant/covenant3.html

You're not a Christian, you're still in your sins and cutoff from Christ.

Any profession you make of Christ or grace or the gospel are the blathering words of a lost soul.

The dispensational churches of our day are baal-temples where people go to learn how to be lost and worship the flesh of some people in the middle east.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You're not a Christian, you're still in your sins and cutoff from Christ.

Any profession you make of Christ or grace or the gospel are the blathering words of a lost soul.

The dispensational churches of our day are baal-temples where people go to learn how to be lost and worship the flesh of some people in the middle east.

What a fine Christian gentleman you are!

 

[Epoisses]

What a fine Christian gentleman you are!

At least I'm a Christian. Dispensationalists who reject the new covenant promise are cutoff.

Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Acts. 15:7-9

 

[Lazy afternoon]

How believers can call themselves Christian while rejecting the blood of the new covenant is quite beyond all sensibility of mind.

LA

 

[meshak]

How believers can call themselves Christian while rejecting the blood of the new covenant is quite beyond all sensibility of mind.

LA

After all, they say they follow Paul, not Jesus' teachings.

 

[Danoh]

The giants of Mid Acts dispensationalism, including Sir Robert Anderson, J.C. O'Hair and Cornelius Stam, taught that the doctrine contained in the Jewish epistles (Hebrews thrugh Jude) applies to the Body of Christ.

In fact, J.C. O'Hair wanted nothing to do with the teaching that the epistles of Peter and James are not for this age, as witnessed by his words here:

"Peter and James and ten other apostles are going to sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel. (Matthew 19:27 and 28). But I do not agree with Christians who say that the twelve apostles were not members of the Body of Christ...I make no such foolish statement...that these Epistles of Peter and James are not for this age...I use 1 Peter 3:18 in preaching the gospel of grace as frequently as I use any other verse" [emphais mine] (O'Hair, The Accuser of the Brethren and the Brethren Concerning Bullingerism).​

Today many in the Mid Acts camphave abandoned the teaching of the giants of Mid Acts Dispensationalism on this subject and teach that the Twelve Apostles were not members of the Body of Christ. I am Mid-Acts and I believe that the doctrine found in the Jewish epistles does apply to those in the Body of Christ.

The old Jerry is back!

I'd missed ya.

Welcome back - here's a stone through your window - it was actually Anderson's, not Welch's views on Acfs, that resulted in Bullinger's having ended up an Acts 28er - you, Neo-Mad, you :chuckle:

Again, welcome back to the old Jerry.

Rom. 14:5, towards ya - in memory of Rom. 5:8.