Nanja
Well-known member
Amen for sure Brother !
Its of Faith so to be of Grace
- Thread starter beloved57
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Amen for sure Brother !
beloved57
Well-known member
Grace is from God and believing is from God, 1 Pet 1:21
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
And Christ the Saviour is God Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
So Christ is the author of the believers Faith Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
And Christ the Saviour is God Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
So Christ is the author of the believers Faith Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen Brother, the Writer of 1 Pet. 1:21, Heb. 12:2 and Titus 2:13 here is precisely stating to Believers of like precious Faith, that it was not of any ability of themselves, but that it is of Christ who was/is the Author and causation of it !
The natural man in his ignorance of the scriptures wants to take credit for faith as being of his own ability, which is a lie;
stealing the glory and credit which is due to Christ alone !
AMEN!
My, oh my, how you love to twist scripture...
We are saved BY grace THROUGH faith. God gives people grace when they place their faith in Him. There is no "gift of faith" given by God to the unbelievers, and having faith does not obligate God to apply grace to someone's account.
As scripture says:
Surely He scorns the scornful, But gives grace to the humble. - Proverbs 3:34 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs3:34&version=NKJV
Meaning that anyone who humbles himself and believes, God will save him.
How can he know if he's saved, if before he couldn't understand? What proof is there that he can use to know for sure that he is saved, when before he couldn't understand such things?
Your translation is corrupt! /s
who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. - 1 Peter 1:21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Peter1:21&version=NKJV
The verse doesn't say "believing is from God."
That's made up doctrine.
beloved57
Well-known member
Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Same difference, the deed of believing by Faith is a Gift. None are saved because they believe but conversely they believe because they are saved by Grace, the Gift of God. First the Gift of Grace is given, then comes the asset, the source is first then the consequence. The source of a persons Faith/Believing is Grace giving the action of believing, believing is the outcome purposed from giving grace. Grace comes first then results Salvation and believing. Believing in Christ is not a natural ability of man, but a Gift of Gods Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
So therefor a person doesnt believe by their own natural faith of the flesh, which cant please God Rom 8:8, but with the Gift of Faith bestowed in the New Birth, the fruit of the Spirit, the Faith that God gives only to His Elect Titus 1:1. This Gift of Faith acknowledges and realizes that Salvation is all by the Grace of God, that Knowledge God works in their heart. Grace gives the saved the knowledge of Salvation Lk 1:77
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Same difference, the deed of believing by Faith is a Gift. None are saved because they believe but conversely they believe because they are saved by Grace, the Gift of God. First the Gift of Grace is given, then comes the asset, the source is first then the consequence. The source of a persons Faith/Believing is Grace giving the action of believing, believing is the outcome purposed from giving grace. Grace comes first then results Salvation and believing. Believing in Christ is not a natural ability of man, but a Gift of Gods Grace Acts 18:27
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
So therefor a person doesnt believe by their own natural faith of the flesh, which cant please God Rom 8:8, but with the Gift of Faith bestowed in the New Birth, the fruit of the Spirit, the Faith that God gives only to His Elect Titus 1:1. This Gift of Faith acknowledges and realizes that Salvation is all by the Grace of God, that Knowledge God works in their heart. Grace gives the saved the knowledge of Salvation Lk 1:77
To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
beloved57
Well-known member
The verse does say By Him do believe in God ! The word by is the prep dia which means:
- through
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
- by reason of
- on account of
- because of for this reason
- therefore
- on this account
- the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
So its on account of Christ they believe in God, the True God. Christ is the reason, basis or cause to them believing in God.
And its confirmed further in the latter part of the verse regarding the resurrection of Christ , then gave Christ Glory in order that what ? "that your faith and hope might be in God."
This cannot be more plainer !
John Gill writes:
What it says is that GRACE is the gift of God. It's not saying that faith is the gift.
Correct, and yet, for God to save someone, they must first believe.
No, not conversely. Scripture is clear:
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: - John 1:12 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John1:12&version=NKJV
He didn't give the right so that they would believe, He gives the right TO THOSE THAT BELIEVE, who have received Him!
But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. - John 5:40 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John5:40&version=NKJV
If it were as you say, Jesus would have said "I did not give you life so that you wouldn't come." But that's not what He said, He said, "you will not come so as to have new life."
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. - John 20:31 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John20:31&version=NKJV
One must be believing for God to give them life, not the other way around.
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, - Ephesians 1:13 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians1:13&version=NKJV
This is exactly what Paul was saying in Romans 10.
The gospel is preached, and a person hears it and can trust in Him/call to Him, and believing, he is sealed.
He isn't sealed so as to trust in Him. He isn't sealed so as to believe. He hears, trusts and believes, and is then sealed, IN THAT ORDER.
And I could go on, but you won't read it anyways. (By God's decree, by the way, if your position is correct.)
Chapter verse for all of this.
Because it's not in the Bible.
No one here has said otherwise.
It is God's grace that allows someone to hear the gospel. But that's not God gifting them grace so that they might believe.
No such thing in scripture.
Talk about taking things out of context...
You clearly do not understand the meaning of "/s".
Did you notice I wasn't responding this point?
I was responding to the claim that the verse says something that it clearly does not.
The fact is:
The verse doesn't say "believing is from God."
That's made up doctrine.
Your grammar is terrible and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I honestly don't care what John Gill (whoever that is) writes.
I care about what SCRIPTURE says!
beloved57
Well-known member
You still dont get it !
No, YOU don't get it!
Lon
Well-known member
Or rather "His" conditions.
beloved57
Well-known member
The saved persons believing is a gift of God for the sake of Christ Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given here is the verb charizomai :
to give graciously, give freely, bestow
Its from the noun charis which is translated grace 130 times in the NT,
So again the saved mans believing is a gift of Gods Grace, By Gods Grace believing is worked in a person. Remember Pauls testimony ?
Was he not a apostle ? A servant of Jesus Christ ? A believer in Christ ? Now how so ? 1 Cor 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Notice the word bestowed in 1 Cor 15:10, though not in the original, yet its conveying the idea of being given as a Gift, that is Grace given into him, this denoted by the prep upon/eis . Gods Grace works within us when bestowed upon us.
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
The word given here is the verb charizomai :
to give graciously, give freely, bestow
Its from the noun charis which is translated grace 130 times in the NT,
So again the saved mans believing is a gift of Gods Grace, By Gods Grace believing is worked in a person. Remember Pauls testimony ?
Was he not a apostle ? A servant of Jesus Christ ? A believer in Christ ? Now how so ? 1 Cor 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Notice the word bestowed in 1 Cor 15:10, though not in the original, yet its conveying the idea of being given as a Gift, that is Grace given into him, this denoted by the prep upon/eis . Gods Grace works within us when bestowed upon us.
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Lon
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus Christ met all conditional needs to save men.
beloved57
Well-known member
Its a given that scripture says whosever believes hath eternal life Jn 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
And of course this is so true. Yet how does a spiritually dead sinner change from being a unbeliever and hater of God naturally, into a Believer who begins to Love God, the True God ? The answer is by Sovereign Grace, they believe because of Grace Acts 18:27, they also believe because of Election Acts 13:48, even Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6. A mans believing totally due to Gods Grace 1 Pet 1:21. Hasnt it been said that " No man can come to Jesus except it be given " Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
The word given didōmi means to bestow as a gift ! This being the case, it goes without saying, nobody can believe in Jesus unless its given to them by Gods Gift of Grace. See Phil 1:29
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jn 3:15
That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
And of course this is so true. Yet how does a spiritually dead sinner change from being a unbeliever and hater of God naturally, into a Believer who begins to Love God, the True God ? The answer is by Sovereign Grace, they believe because of Grace Acts 18:27, they also believe because of Election Acts 13:48, even Election is of Grace Rom 11:5-6. A mans believing totally due to Gods Grace 1 Pet 1:21. Hasnt it been said that " No man can come to Jesus except it be given " Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
The word given didōmi means to bestow as a gift ! This being the case, it goes without saying, nobody can believe in Jesus unless its given to them by Gods Gift of Grace. See Phil 1:29
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen indeed Brother ! Believing in Christ is the result of the Everlasting Covenant, and how that His Blood is connected to and causative of those who, by His Grace, come to believe in Christ because He gave His Life for them !
Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb. 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Rom. 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
beloved57
Well-known member
Amen Sister !
Nanja
Well-known member
Amen, and absolutely correct Brother: All Glory to God for His Sovereign Gift of Grace whereby His Election Acts 13:48
are Spiritually Enabled / Given to to Believe on Him, and Come to Christ in New Birth !