ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
what even more disturbing is that his dementia has progressed so far that he no longer recognizes the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration
It's not new
- Thread starter The Barbarian
- Start date
what even more disturbing is that his dementia has progressed so far that he no longer recognizes the difference between legal immigration and illegal immigration
You've been suckered on that. The data is on all 50 states. And no, the INS does not document all low-skill workers. We don't even know for sure exactly how many there are.
They said that about the Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Jews, etc. And they were always wrong. And now you're wrong.
It's just the embodiment of the American Dream. "Liberty Enlightening the World."
It was dedicated in 1886. Let's see how badly we were "going poor" back then:
In the last third of the 19th century the United States entered a phase of rapid economic growth which doubled per capita income over the period. By 1895, the United States leaped ahead of Britain for first place in manufacturing output.[194] For the first time, exports of machinery and consumer goods became important. For example, Standard Oil led the way in exporting kerosene; Russia was its main rival in international trade.[195] Singer Corporation led the way in developing a global marketing strategy for its sewing machines.[196]
The greatly expanded railroad network, using inexpensive steel rails produced by new steel making processes, dramatically lowered transportation cost to areas without access to navigable waterways. Low freight rates allowed large manufacturing facilities with great economies of scale. Machinery became a large industry and many types of machines were developed. Businesses were able to operate over wide areas and chain stores arose. Mail order companies started operating.[137] Rural Free Delivery began in the early 1890s, but it was not widely implemented for a decade.[197]
William Sellers & Company in Philadelphia, 1876
Companies created a new management systems to carry out their operations on a large scale. Companies integrated processes to eliminate unnecessary steps and to eliminate middlemen.[137]
An explosion of new discoveries and inventions took place, a process called the Second Industrial Revolution. The electric light, telephone, steam turbine, internal combustion engine, automobile, phonograph, typewriter and tabulating machine were some of the many inventions of the period. New processes for making steel and chemicals such as dyes and explosives were invented. The pneumatic tire, improved ball bearings, machine tools and newly developed metal stamping techniques enabled the large scale production of bicycles in the 1890s. Another significant development was the widespread introduction of electric street railways (trams, trolleys or streetcars) in the 1890s.
Improvements in transportation and other technological progress caused prices to fall, especially during the so-called long depression, but the rising amount of gold and silver being mined eventually resulted in mild inflation during the 1890s and beyond.[198][199]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_history_of_the_United_States
The population was rising,and America was becoming rich, fueled by farming, manufacturing, and an influx of workers from other nations.
And yes, the no-nothings were wringing their hands, as they are today. But they were wrong, and they failed, just as the nativists today are wrong and failing.
genuineoriginal
New member
It would be very difficult for illegal aliens to match the violence of pre-colonial native Americans.
| A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE quantitative body-counts—such as the proportion of prehistoric skeletons with axemarks and embedded arrowheads or the proportion of men in a contemporary foraging tribe who die at the hands of other men—suggest that pre-state societies were far more violent than our own. It is true that raids and battles killed a tiny percentage of the numbers that die in modern warfare. But, in tribal violence, the clashes are more frequent, the percentage of men in the population who fight is greater, and the rates of death per battle are higher. According to anthropologists like Lawrence Keeley, Stephen LeBlanc, Phillip Walker, and Bruce Knauft, these factors combine to yield population-wide rates of death in tribal warfare that dwarf those of modern times. |
It's impossible for illegal aliens to match the violence of native-born Americans today. This is why it's safer in areas with more illegal aliens. And new studies confirm the fact:
I recently received new data from Texas on the number of convictions by crime and immigration status as well as the number of individuals convicted (they are slightly different). This Texas data is the best data that we have on the commission of murder by immigrants by specific legal status. In 2016, 746 native-born Texans, 32 illegal immigrants, and 28 legal immigrants were convicted of homicide. In that year, the homicide conviction rate for native-born Americans is Texas was 3.2 per 100,000 natives while it was 1.8 per 100,000 illegal immigrants and 0.9 per 100,000 legal immigrants (Figure 1). The illegal immigrant conviction rate for homicide was 44 percent below that of native-born Americans in 2016 in Texas.
https://www.cato.org/blog/murder-mollie-tibbetts-illegal-immigrant-crime-facts
Pre-Columbian native Americans had levels of violence rivaling those of Renaissance Europe.
Of course, they never had genocide on the level of Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot, but that was more from lack of organization than anything else.
Typical Barbarian nonsense: Accuse whole swaths of society of stupidity, but refuse to be specific. Who are these "ignorant fools," Barbarian? Give us names or go home.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
if you're in favor of lawful, orderly immigration and opposed to illegal immigration, you are:
a fool
an idiot
foolish
fearful
frightened
stupid
hysterical
paranoid
panicked
ignorant
and cowardly.
and then there's this - too much of a coward himself to fling the R word explicitly, he buried it:
typical barbie nonsense indeed, the sort of crap that inevitably earns him a ban and us a break from his silly hyperventilating
Yep. Too much of a coward to name names, much less present a rational argument.
Typical Barbarian nonsense: Accuse whole swaths of society of stupidity,[/quote]
There aren't as many of them, as you suppose. Stupidity will always be with us, but those who unreasonably fear people who are less violent than most of our fellow Americans are in a distinct minority.
People like that.
No need. The beauty of it is, they thought their time had come, and they have openly shown who they are. The rough beast died aborning in Charlottesville. Even the republicans are starting to push them back into the sewers. Who would have thought that would happen so fast?
I am home. I was born in the United States. Maybe you'd be better off if you went home, um?
There aren't as many of them, as you suppose. Stupidity will always be with us, but those who unreasonably fear people who are less violent than most of our fellow Americans are in a distinct minority.
People like that.
No need. The beauty of it is, they thought their time had come, and they have openly shown who they are. The rough beast died aborning in Charlottesville. Even the republicans are starting to push them back into the sewers. Who would have thought that would happen so fast?
I am home. I was born in the United States. Maybe you'd be better off if you went home, um?
Alex Nowrasteh, with the libertarian Cato Institute, analyzed the Texas data to make a comparison of immigrants in the country illegally and native-born residents. In a recent post he noted that in 2015 Texas police made 815,689 arrests of native-born Americans, 37,776 arrests of immigrants in the country illegally and 20,323 arrests of legal immigrants. Given the relative populations for each group, he wrote, “The arrest rate for illegal immigrants was 40 percent below that of native-born Americans.”
In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”
Other research from the Cato Institute attempted to provide national estimates. A study published on June 4 used data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey for 2016 and applied statistical modeling to estimate the number of incarcerated immigrants in the country illegally. It filtered the data using characteristics correlated with being an immigrant in the country illegally, such as whether someone is a non-citizen but has not served in the military or received Social Security income. The research concluded: “Illegal immigrants are 47 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives.” (And legal immigrants are even less likely to be in jail or prison.)
Cato, June 4: If native-born Americans were incarcerated at the same rate as illegal immigrants, about 930,000 fewer natives would be incarcerated. Conversely, if natives were incarcerated at the same rate as legal immigrants, about 1.5 million fewer natives would be in adult correctional facilities.
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
In addition, he wrote, the homicide arrest rate for native-born Americans was “about 46 percent higher than the illegal immigrant homicide arrest rate.”
Other research from the Cato Institute attempted to provide national estimates. A study published on June 4 used data from the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey for 2016 and applied statistical modeling to estimate the number of incarcerated immigrants in the country illegally. It filtered the data using characteristics correlated with being an immigrant in the country illegally, such as whether someone is a non-citizen but has not served in the military or received Social Security income. The research concluded: “Illegal immigrants are 47 percent less likely to be incarcerated than natives.” (And legal immigrants are even less likely to be in jail or prison.)
Cato, June 4: If native-born Americans were incarcerated at the same rate as illegal immigrants, about 930,000 fewer natives would be incarcerated. Conversely, if natives were incarcerated at the same rate as legal immigrants, about 1.5 million fewer natives would be in adult correctional facilities.
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/is-illegal-immigration-linked-to-more-or-less-crime/
We begin our analysis by first considering the bivariate associations between undocumented immigration and violence since 1990. Correlations between state‐level mean deviations in the proportion undocumented (x‐axis) and mean deviations in each of the violent crime measures (y‐axis) between 1990 and 2014 are shown graphically in figure 3.13 The overall patterns in the data are consistent across each dependent variable: Increases in the undocumented immigrant population within states are associated with significant decreases in the prevalence of violence. This set of findings runs contrary to the marginalization and disorganization perspectives. Nevertheless, though descriptive trends represent the necessary first step in any causal inquiry, they are hardly conclusive. We thus turn to our fixed‐effects regression models to scrutinize more rigorously the undocumented immigration–crime relationship.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
(I'm going to do a little experiment. I'm going to just ignore a certain person and see if he gets crazier and crazier, trying to get my attention)
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1745-9125.12175
(I'm going to do a little experiment. I'm going to just ignore a certain person and see if he gets crazier and crazier, trying to get my attention)
There's no reasoning with fear or hate, of course. But for those willing to resort to reason, these are important data.
You can tell when Barbarian is flustered. He starts umming.
Names, Barbarian. Or go home.
In addition to not being willing to name names (cowardice), Barbarian has brought into an argument from statistics that is almost certainly useless.
Did he bother to read his link?
They approximate the undocumented population using a residual technique (basically counting deaths and estimating from that the actual number of people in an area compared with the documented number).
This obviously has very little to do with people illegally entering the US via its southern border.
Did he bother to read his link?
They approximate the undocumented population using a residual technique (basically counting deaths and estimating from that the actual number of people in an area compared with the documented number).
This obviously has very little to do with people illegally entering the US via its southern border.
I am home. Maybe you should go home, um? But you might ask Kevin McCarthy. He might know of someone.
But now, you're getting boring again. Impotent hostility can be funny, but only once or twice a thread. Find something new, or (for a change) try to address the OP.
Nah. That's all in your mind.
You're actually wandering down the street in your nighty shouting incoherently.
You can tell when Barbarian is flustered.
You're getting boring, again. Impotent hostility can be funny, but only once or twice a thread. Find something new, or (for a change) try to address the refutation of OP and the accusation that you are a coward, calling groups "ignorant fools," but being unwilling to give specifics.
Names, Barbarian. Or go home.
Who Does Not Like Illegal Immigrants? And Why?
I examine several reasons for hostilities toward illegal immigrants.
Aside from stereotypes, why else do some people feel animosity toward illegal immigrants? Espenshade and Calhoun have tested five hypotheses:
1. The labor market competition hypothesis suggests that people with the lowest socioeconomic standing feel most threatened by illegal aliens and thus have the most unfavorable opinion of them.
2. The cultural affinity hypothesis predicts that the people whose cultural background is most different from the newcomers are most likely to dislike them.
3. The education hypothesis proposes that strong negative attitudes toward migrants are associated with lower levels of education.
4. The cost-benefit hypothesis links negative opinions of undocumented immigrants with beliefs about how these migrants might negatively affect one’s material well-being (e.g., through raised taxes).
5. The symbolic politics hypothesis proposes that the antagonism toward newcomers is the result of the perception that immigrants and their way of life are potential threats to symbols of national identity (e.g., the English language).
...
Group-narcissism is narcissism that is associated with entitlement at the group level. Group-narcissism may encourage hostile attitudes toward others when the group’s superiority is threatened by outside forces.
Lyons and colleagues found that, as expected, when group narcissism was high, national in-group identification was associated with hostile attitudes toward illegal Latino immigrants.
The results can have serious implications, given that by 2050, the Latino population will likely represent a third of the US population while Whites will be in the minority; this change will be considered a deviation from the “traditional American customs and values”; these deviations are likely to be not only threatening identity-wise but also “disrespectful to the superior status” of Americans.
The fear that US is becoming a “brown” and “bilingual nation” is likely to increase hostility toward immigrants.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01806/who-does-not-illegal-immigrants-and-why
I examine several reasons for hostilities toward illegal immigrants.
Aside from stereotypes, why else do some people feel animosity toward illegal immigrants? Espenshade and Calhoun have tested five hypotheses:
1. The labor market competition hypothesis suggests that people with the lowest socioeconomic standing feel most threatened by illegal aliens and thus have the most unfavorable opinion of them.
2. The cultural affinity hypothesis predicts that the people whose cultural background is most different from the newcomers are most likely to dislike them.
3. The education hypothesis proposes that strong negative attitudes toward migrants are associated with lower levels of education.
4. The cost-benefit hypothesis links negative opinions of undocumented immigrants with beliefs about how these migrants might negatively affect one’s material well-being (e.g., through raised taxes).
5. The symbolic politics hypothesis proposes that the antagonism toward newcomers is the result of the perception that immigrants and their way of life are potential threats to symbols of national identity (e.g., the English language).
...
Group-narcissism is narcissism that is associated with entitlement at the group level. Group-narcissism may encourage hostile attitudes toward others when the group’s superiority is threatened by outside forces.
Lyons and colleagues found that, as expected, when group narcissism was high, national in-group identification was associated with hostile attitudes toward illegal Latino immigrants.
The results can have serious implications, given that by 2050, the Latino population will likely represent a third of the US population while Whites will be in the minority; this change will be considered a deviation from the “traditional American customs and values”; these deviations are likely to be not only threatening identity-wise but also “disrespectful to the superior status” of Americans.
The fear that US is becoming a “brown” and “bilingual nation” is likely to increase hostility toward immigrants.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...01806/who-does-not-illegal-immigrants-and-why
Names, Barbarian. Who are the racists? (We knew you wanted to paint large swaths of society as evil.)
Put up, or go home.
A 2007 review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office found that "over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized—exceed the cost of the services they use." While the overall fiscal impact on the US is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of state and local governments. While cautioning that the reports are not a suitable basis for developing an aggregate national effect across all states, they concluded that:[8]
"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs";
"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions";
"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants"; and
"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."
IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[10] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[10] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[21] In addition, they spend millions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million illegal immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.6 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.2 billion in services used.[22]
The Social Security and Medicare contributions of illegal immigrants directly support older Americans, as illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive these services, although their children born in the United States are eligible for such benefits.[23] Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file"—an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to illegal workers who will never claim their benefits. For 2010, the Social Security Administration estimated that illegal immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes.[24]
The Social Security Administration has stated that it believes unauthorized work by non-citizens is a major cause of wage items being posted as erroneous wage reports instead of on an individual's earnings record.[25] When Social Security numbers are already in use; names do not match the numbers or the numbers are fake, or the person of record is too old, young, dead etc., the earnings reported to the Social Security Agency are put in an Earnings Suspense file. The Social Security spends about $100 million a year and corrects all but about 2% of these. From tax years 1937 through 2003 the ESF had accumulated about 255 million mismatched wage reports, representing $520 billion in wages and about $75 billion in employment taxes paid into the over $1.5 trillion in the Social Security Trust funds. As of October 2005, approximately 8.8 million wage reports, representing $57.8 billion in wages remained unresolved in the suspense file for tax year 2003.[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States
So the immigration laws are widely dodged by employers (including Donald Trump who has and is employing illegal aliens) and others in the United States for the same reason a lot of other laws are dodged. They are wrong.
Illegal aliens add a huge benefit to America economically. And they tend to be better-behaved than native-born Americans. People understand that; that's why they hire them. And it's why Trump hasn't proposed anything that would actually stop them from coming to America.
He wants a symbol that looks good, but he wants to keep hiring them for his country clubs. Hence the wall.
The answer is to change the law to fit our needs. The guest worker system didn't work very well in the 1950s and 1960s, because there wasn't adequate protection for the workers and the laws were somewhat complicated for employers.
This is because most workers from Latin America don't really want to stay here; prior to the increased enforcement, they came in, worked for a bit, and then went home. Increased enforcement led to more people settling in the U.S.
And for those who want to live here, there wouldn't be such a wait to be processed.
Of course, that would remove it as a way to stir up the base. So don't count on it happening.
(My experiment initially seemed to have confirmed the hypothesis, but then one of them actually attempted to compose a reasonable argument. Let's see if he can keep it up)
"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs";
"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions";
"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants"; and
"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."
IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[10] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[10] Illegal immigrants are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[21] In addition, they spend millions of dollars per year, which supports the US economy and helps to create new jobs. The Texas State Comptroller reported in 2006 that the 1.4 million illegal immigrants in Texas added almost $18 billion to the gross state product, and contributed $1.6 billion in state revenue, while costing the state about $1.2 billion in services used.[22]
The Social Security and Medicare contributions of illegal immigrants directly support older Americans, as illegal immigrants are not eligible to receive these services, although their children born in the United States are eligible for such benefits.[23] Illegal immigrants pay social security payroll taxes but are not eligible for benefits. During 2006, Standard & Poor's analysts wrote: "Each year, for example, the U.S. Social Security Administration maintains roughly $6 billion to $7 billion of Social Security contributions in an "earnings suspense file"—an account for W-2 tax forms that cannot be matched to the correct Social Security number. The vast majority of these numbers are attributable to illegal workers who will never claim their benefits. For 2010, the Social Security Administration estimated that illegal immigrants and their employers paid $13 billion in required social security payroll taxes.[24]
The Social Security Administration has stated that it believes unauthorized work by non-citizens is a major cause of wage items being posted as erroneous wage reports instead of on an individual's earnings record.[25] When Social Security numbers are already in use; names do not match the numbers or the numbers are fake, or the person of record is too old, young, dead etc., the earnings reported to the Social Security Agency are put in an Earnings Suspense file. The Social Security spends about $100 million a year and corrects all but about 2% of these. From tax years 1937 through 2003 the ESF had accumulated about 255 million mismatched wage reports, representing $520 billion in wages and about $75 billion in employment taxes paid into the over $1.5 trillion in the Social Security Trust funds. As of October 2005, approximately 8.8 million wage reports, representing $57.8 billion in wages remained unresolved in the suspense file for tax year 2003.[25]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in_the_United_States
So the immigration laws are widely dodged by employers (including Donald Trump who has and is employing illegal aliens) and others in the United States for the same reason a lot of other laws are dodged. They are wrong.
Illegal aliens add a huge benefit to America economically. And they tend to be better-behaved than native-born Americans. People understand that; that's why they hire them. And it's why Trump hasn't proposed anything that would actually stop them from coming to America.
He wants a symbol that looks good, but he wants to keep hiring them for his country clubs. Hence the wall.
The answer is to change the law to fit our needs. The guest worker system didn't work very well in the 1950s and 1960s, because there wasn't adequate protection for the workers and the laws were somewhat complicated for employers.
This is because most workers from Latin America don't really want to stay here; prior to the increased enforcement, they came in, worked for a bit, and then went home. Increased enforcement led to more people settling in the U.S.
And for those who want to live here, there wouldn't be such a wait to be processed.
Of course, that would remove it as a way to stir up the base. So don't count on it happening.
(My experiment initially seemed to have confirmed the hypothesis, but then one of them actually attempted to compose a reasonable argument. Let's see if he can keep it up)