It's All Buddha

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Christine

Grownup behaviour? What could possibly be wrong with believing as Jesus, Paul the Apostle, and other prominent Bible characters did? BTW: Aussie Thinker, it's obious you don't want to debate. You just want to promote your beliefs, even if it means belittleing the other side. I will not be responding to you any more. I have better things to do with my time.

Aussie in THIS THREAD HERE is not primarly promoting his beliefs, but his primary concern is to protect humanity from people who are eager to kill others while they are not better than those. I say this is the most God-like and love-motivated action ANYONE can make. I'm sorry that too many christians are instead of following Jesus in this point following the steps of devil who is KILLER HIMSELF.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Christine,

wasn't i asking from you before what is the sin of sodomy at all? If not, then i ask it. So far the people whom i asked it keep silence.

Dread Helm,

i dont remember you replying my message where i said that according to the logic you use Jesus was wrong when letting this adulterous women to go, while the Law demanded her punishment. I would like to hear your opinion on that.

 

[Balder]

I've heard some people theorize that Jesus let the woman go on a technicality, rather than out of mercy. Apparently according to the Law a stoning can't take place unless there are witnesses to the event present, or unless the other "partner" is also present, or something like that.

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

1. Can you stop comparing me as person with church as organisation, please? :chuckle:
Compare me with other baptists who are persons, if you like.

Sorry. I'm not, or if I am I don't mean too, be comparing you to an organization. I've known many GARBC (General Assocation of Regular Baptist Curches) Baptist parishoners, as well as FWB (Free-Will Baptists,of various conventions).

2. I have personally met ministers of different Baptist churches who dont see homosexuality as sin today. Some of them were also from U.S. besides of Europe.

Just because other Baptists agree with you, doesn't make what you believe correct.

3. It's ok to call me liberal on matters is homosexuality sin, or not.

Ok, you're a liberal when it comes to sodomy.

But i hope you dont think that i'm liberal when defending the claim that homos are no more worthy of death than any other sinner is. I hope you can label my outrage against killing homos as a mark of mature and conservative christianity that appreciates the spirit of Christ's teachings.

Are you saying that you believe sodomy is a sin, but not worthy of the death penalty? Are you against the death penalty entirely?

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker

BChristianK,

You make a GREAT point…

It shows how demented haters can point to ANYTHING they like in the Bible as justification for the object of their hatred.

Sounds like you and Gluttons, :think:

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
They PICK and CHOOSE which “laws” they will abide and which can be dispensated.

No we "rightly divide the word of truth". It's not morally wrong to pick up sticks on a certain day. That was a symbolic law, a parallel to how God rested on the seventh day. We under the Body, do not obey symbolic commandments, such as circumcision. Paul says if you circumcise to be accounted righous under the Law, you are cursed.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
They ALL break the Sabbath law and plenty of others but the ‘homo’s they MUST execute for their transgressions.

Yup. Homosexuality is MORALY wrong, not AMORAL like Symbolic Laws.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
There is NO way you can interpret Jesus condoning the execution of homosexuals. If you are using the fact that he often reiterated following OT law as the right thing to do you MUST say breaking the Sabbath is punishable by execution ?

Was Jesus in the Body? NO! Jesus was even circumcised!

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Luke 2:27
And he came in the Spirit into the temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to carry out for Him the custom of the Law...

Jesus supported the law. So he would support these:

Leviticus 20:13
'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Leviticus 20:15
'If there is a man who lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death; you shall also kill the animal.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
Jesus himself broke OT law (or allowed it) and in some things was in TOTAL disagreement with OT law. Like the Turn the other cheek vs eye for an eye.

How could Jesus say turn the other cheek and promote execution for ANY crime.

Where did Jesus BREAK the OT law?
Jesus had the authority to forgive a crime such as the woman caught in Adultery:

John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
You guys seem so hung up on the OT .. Jesus fundamental message was not the fire and brimstone insanity of Bob Enyart and his inquisitional Goons it was of love and tolerance and ..in respect to the treatment of other humans..

Did God go through psychoanalasis in the intertestament period? Was he nicer in the NT? NO!!!! God's Character is the same "yesterday, today, and forever"! He would not give a MORAL law and then say, "Oh! That moral Law is wrong!". Then God would be evil for having condemed inocent Homos to death. But no, God did NOT repeal that law. God did NOT delegate the authority to Human Judges to show mercy. But God IS able to show mercy.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
Shadowmaid and Christine,

Sadly neither of you exhibit anything like grown up behaviour. When you experience some more life hopefully you will gain compassion and tolerance.

quote:
Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
He (Dread Helm) is a pathetic bigoted poor excuse for a fundy who thinks it is cool to say he is 12 so he can generate compliments for his lucidity… " "

Oh, yah, and you're sayong THEY are acting Immature.

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
BTW Do you think Homosexuality is a natural thing ? (Remember animals do it too).. If so wasn’t it “created” by God ?.. Why did he do that ?

Umm, give me data and recorded studies on that. :chuckle:

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Aussie in THIS THREAD HERE is not primarly promoting his beliefs, but his primary concern is to protect humanity from people who are eager to kill others while they are not better than those.

Neither I nor others who share my beliefs on this matter are running around, taking the law into our own hands, killing sodomites.

I say this is the most God-like and love-motivated action ANYONE can make.

It's God-like for Aussie to tell me, a born-again Christian, that I'm condemned to hell, if such a place does exist?

I'm sorry that too many Christians are instead of following Jesus in this point following the steps of devil who is KILLER HIMSELF.

Are you against the death penalty intirely, or just for sodomites?

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia
Dread Helm,

i dont remember you replying my message where i said that according to the logic you use Jesus was wrong when letting this adulterous women to go, while the Law demanded her punishment. I would like to hear your opinion on that.

Jesus had the authority to forgive a crime such as the woman caught in Adultery:

John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

He is God. She was repentent. God did NOT repeal that law. God did NOT delegate the authority to Human Judges to show mercy. But God IS able to show mercy. Does that answer your question satisfactorly?

 

[Christine]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Christine,

wasn't i asking from you before what is the sin of sodomy at all? If not, then i ask it. So far the people whom i asked it keep silence.

Well, we know it's a sin because it's condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. I'm not going to bother saying where, because others have already said in this thread. Why is it a sin? Well, the Bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong, and it also says that it's wrong to turn from the natural (man and woman) to the unnatural (2 men or 2 women). There are other reasons as well.

 

[beanieboy]

Can you quote anywhere in the New Testament that someone should be stoned to death for ANY given sin?

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by BChristianK
I don't expect Dread to be able to do this since he is twelve, but I would expect you to be able to do this turbo.

That's OK, I like the Challenge! :thumb:

Originally posted by BChristianK
Again no one has been able to explain to me why a dispensationalist would carry a penalty against homosexuality given during the dispensation of Law into the current dispensation while leaving the penalties of Sabbath breaking and adultery behind.

Jesus had the authority to forgive a crime such as the woman caught in Adultery and David's Sins:

John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.


God did NOT repeal that law. They were both Repentant. God did NOT delegate the authority to Human Judges to show mercy. But God IS able to show mercy.
(Not to mention that David and The Woman will probably get "more stripes" at Judgement Day)

Murder, Sexual Immorality, and Kidnapping, continue to be punishable with death, while things like the breaking of the Sabbath are not, because they are of the Law. These laws are AMORAL, not immoral, nor moral. They are not for us under the Body. I would really recommend reading the Plot. I am reading through it for the third time, and really think it would help you in your Christian walk.
Again, it is a pleasure to debate you. It makes me think about what I believe! :thumb:

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by beanieboy

Can you quote anywhere in the New Testament that someone should be stoned to death for ANY given sin?

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.

Matthew 21:33
Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country... (after murdering the owner's son)
When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out [his] vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.

Luke 11:49
Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and [some] of them they shall slay and persecute...

Romans 13:4
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Hebrews 7:1
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him...

Jude 1:15
To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Revelation 6:10
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Balder

I've heard some people theorize that Jesus let the woman go on a technicality, rather than out of mercy. Apparently according to the Law a stoning can't take place unless there are witnesses to the event present, or unless the other "partner" is also present, or something like that.

Could be. But as there is NO record that Jesus ever actively supported death penalty for any sinner, we cannot claim that Jesus supports killing the homos.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Christine

Just because other Baptists agree with you, doesn't make what you believe correct.

Just because your Christian friends agree with you, doesn't make what you believe correct.

Are you saying that you believe sodomy is a sin, but not worthy of the death penalty? Are you against the death penalty entirely?

Firstly, i dont call it "sodomy" because it's misused word for homosexualism.

If i would believe that today God sees homosexualism as He saw it in NT, i would say - it's as much worthy of death penalty than ANY OTHER SIN. Read Romans 1 and you see there are lot of sins (and few of them you know very well personally, i believe) about what Paul says that those who do such things are worthy of death. Homosexualism is not anything exclusive. And to say it's extra bad sin compared to others in PURE HYPOCRACY and IGNORANCE.

But as i see homosexuality as socio-cultural thing, i do not believe it to be sin in OUR WORLD TODAY.

I'm not totally against death penalty. I believe it should be used against those who enjoy killing and raping and would gladly do it again when they would get free from jail. But as general, i do not support death penalty, until a person has not got second chance.

I believe that the ESSENCE of Gospel is mercy and forgiveness. If you cannot forgive the sinner, God will not forgive to You according to the Bible. If you are mercyless toward homos, God will be exactly as mercyless toward you in judgement day because you have your own sins too.

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia
If you cannot forgive the sinner, God will not forgive to You according to the Bible. If you are mercyless toward homos, God will be exactly as mercyless toward you in judgement day because you have your own sins too.

Actually that's works. That means that's for the Circumcision.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Jesus had the authority to forgive a crime such as the woman caught in Adultery:

John 5:27
and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

He is God. She was repentent. God did NOT repeal that law. God did NOT delegate the authority to Human Judges to show mercy. But God IS able to show mercy. Does that answer your question satisfactorly?

Yes, it does.

So you do not believe that repentent ex-homo should get forgiven too and his death penalty should be cancelled, because God is not delegating his authority to judges?

Or more correctly. As we live in society where NO COURT will condemn homosexuality with execution, what is your opinion about repentant ex-homos? Should they be executed anyway, even if God forgave them and judges doesnt judge this matter?

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Christine

Well, we know it's a sin because it's condemned in both the Old and New Testaments. I'm not going to bother saying where, because others have already said in this thread. Why is it a sin? Well, the Bible says sex outside of marriage is wrong, and it also says that it's wrong to turn from the natural (man and woman) to the unnatural (2 men or 2 women). There are other reasons as well.

You dont even know what the sin of Sodomy actually was and you keep mumbling about unnatural sex here.

Let me help you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50:
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

Where it says here ANYTHING about homosexuality?

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by Dread Helm

Actually that's works. That means that's for the Circumcision.

Sorry, but i didnt get what you said. Can you explain?

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

You dont even know what the sin of Sodomy actually was and you keep mumbling about unnatural sex here.

Let me help you.

Ezekiel 16:49-50:
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, surfeit of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty, and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them, when I saw it."

Where it says here ANYTHING about homosexuality?

It says they did abominable things before Him. Homosexuality is called an abomination in the Torah.

 

[Cyrus of Persia]

Originally posted by One Eyed Jack

It says they did abominable things before Him. Homosexuality is called an abomination in the Torah.

IF the word in hebrew gives us "homosexuality" it MIGHT be ONE of the sins. But it's in the end of the list where the MAJOR sins of Sodom are already mentioned.

I'm off to bed - 2.15 am here.

 

[JoyfulRook]

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia

Yes, it does.

So you do not believe that repentent ex-homo should get forgiven too and his death penalty should be cancelled, because God is not delegating his authority to judges?

:doh: Oh boy. OK, Let's start from the begining. Yes he is forgiven by God, BUT he still is executed. Only God could rightly have him not be executed (woman caught in Adultery, and David).

John 5:27
...and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

Earthly Judges are instructed not to have mercy, (ie, not punish a convicted criminal) but to punish them (ie, execute homos).

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia
Or more correctly. As we live in society where NO COURT will condemn homosexuality with execution, what is your opinion about repentant ex-homos?

No Prob. If Homosexuality was not a crime and then was recriminalized, the law would not be carried out ex post facto.

Originally posted by Cyrus of Persia
Should they be executed anyway, even if God forgave them?

COntinuing Homosexuals AFTER the law was given SHOULD be Executed. If they stop after the Law was given, then no.