It not about a "gun culture," but a "death culture."

[rocketman]

How do you crazy gun control freak liberals explain how Chicago, IL has the highest murder rate in the nation (405 so far) yet they have some of the most stringent gun laws in the nation? Why are the gun laws not working in Chicago? Is it a cultural thing? Do any of the good liberals here have an answer to this? Maybe more gun laws will fix it???

 

[PureX]

How do you crazy gun control freak liberals explain how Chicago, IL has yet they have some of the most stringent gun laws in the nation? Why are the gun laws not working in Chicago?

It's very simple, anyone living in Chicago can drive ten minutes to a nearby suburb and legally buy all the guns they can carry away.

The reason gun regulations don't work is because they are absurdly inconsistent and effectively idiotic.

 

[Quetzal]

I want to say "prove" it, but that'd kind of be an oxymoron.

Do you 'need' a knife?

Sure, how am I supposed to cut my steak?

 

[Quetzal]

You couldn't prove the new legislation caused the drop, so how could I determine the value? People were still murdered with guns the year I purchased a gun after a mandatory background check. And many people were stabbed that year, too.

A background check in a single state is pretty useless if they can buy it from another without one.

 

[Quetzal]

And if it does nothing? Then what, more laws? more infringement on the rights of people who actually follow the law?

So the fact it might make it a slight inconvenience for you is enough reason for you not to try?

Curious though....given that there are more deaths from motor vehicles than guns do you feel that mandatory background checks & cool down periods for vehicle sales will slow down vehicle deaths as well?

The difference is you are licensed to drive a car. If you disobey traffic laws you can take that license away. No such system exists for firearms.

 

[Quetzal]

Why do you leftists want law-abiding citizens unable to defend themselves with force equal to that employed by criminals?

Can you please point to a post where anyone is advocating for the forced surrender of firearms?

 

[rocketman]

It's very simple, anyone living in Chicago can drive ten minutes to a nearby suburb and legally buy all the guns they can carry away.

The reason gun regulations don't work is because they are absurdly inconsistent and effectively idiotic.

So, it is your assertion that the guns being used in crimes in Chicago are bought legally from the burbs? Really, the problem is not the legal purchase of guns but, trafficking of weapons into Chicago from "straw purchases" & other illegal means from out of state. Your ten minute drive to the burbs scenario is just not the case in Chicago and even with stricter rules criminals will find a way to kill in Chicago...it is the hearts of men that must change if you want murder to decrease, gun control is just an attempt to treat the symptom, while ignoring the disease.

 

[Quetzal]

So, it is your assertion that the guns being used in crimes in Chicago are bought legally from the burbs? Really, the problem is not the legal purchase of guns but, trafficking of weapons into Chicago from "straw purchases" & other illegal means from out of state. Your ten minute drive to the burbs scenario is just not the case in Chicago and even with stricter rules criminals will find a way to kill in Chicago...it is the hearts of men that must change if you want murder to decrease, gun control is just an attempt to treat the symptom, while ignoring the disease.

As critical as you are, I have yet to hear you give a good idea.

 

[rocketman]

So the fact it might make it a slight inconvenience for you is enough reason for you not to try?

It already is an inconvenience for me as well as an infringement upon my constitutional rights. I live in CA which has the strictest gun laws, yet people are killed here with guns as well. Imposing more Gun laws will not fix the problem...it never has.

The difference is you are licensed to drive a car. If you disobey traffic laws you can take that license away. No such system exists for firearms.

Not true...There is nothing that keeps a person from driving drunk or stoned and killing people at a higher rate than guns every year but, we don't hear you libs lobbying for controls to keep drunks & stoners from getting behind the wheel. Even when a person has their license revoked fro breaking the law it does not keep them from getting behind the wheel and possibly killing someone now does it?

 

[Quetzal]

It already is an inconvenience for me as well as an infringement upon my constitutional rights. I live in CA which has the strictest gun laws, yet people are killed here with guns as well. Imposing more Gun laws will not fix the problem...it never has.

Poor thing. But as we have already discussed, individual states mandating stricter regulation is easily circumvented.

Not true...There is nothing that keeps a person from driving drunk or stoned and killing people at a higher rate than guns every year but, we don't hear you libs lobbying for controls to keep drunks & stoners from getting behind the wheel. Even when a person has their license revoked fro breaking the law it does not keep them from getting behind the wheel and possibly killing someone now does it?

Do you think the roads are safer because those laws do exist?

 

[rocketman]

As critical as you are, I have yet to hear you give a good idea.

That would mean that I agree with you that more gun control needs to be enacted...I say allow nationwide Conceal Carry, then the legal owners of guns will out number & can defend themselves against the illegal possessors and would make criminals think twice about pulling a gun in a public venue without a multitude of legal guns pointing back at them. Guns will always be a part of American society so, we might as well embrace legal gun ownership & conceal carry to curb the criminal element. That is an idea I can get behind, and the data shows where CC is legal, gun crime goes down, there have been many peer reviewed studies that prove it. Here is a great study from the Crime Prevention Research Center...educate yourself.

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...y-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

 

[rocketman]

Do you think the roads are safer because those laws do exist?

Which laws are you speaking of, I mean if you are going to speak in generalities there are many laws governing gun sales and use as well, laws only matter to those that follow them, and more laws do not make it any safer for the law abiding i.e.. there will always be those that break the law.

 

[Quetzal]

Which laws are you speaking of, I mean if you are going to speak in generalities there are many laws governing gun sales and use as well, laws only matter to those that follow them, and more laws do not make it any safer for the law abiding i.e.. there will always be those that break the law.

You are avoiding the question. You brought up the comparison regarding cars and I asked you: Do you believe the roads are safer due to the laws that punish drunk driving and driving under the influence? Yes or no?

 

[Quetzal]

That would mean that I agree with you that more gun control needs to be enacted...I say allow nationwide Conceal Carry, then the legal owners of guns will out number & can defend themselves against the illegal possessors and would make criminals think twice about pulling a gun in a public venue without a multitude of legal guns pointing back at them. Guns will always be a part of American society so, we might as well embrace legal gun ownership & conceal carry to curb the criminal element. That is an idea I can get behind, and the data shows where CC is legal, gun crime goes down, there have been many peer reviewed studies that prove it. Here is a great study from the Crime Prevention Research Center...educate yourself.

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content...y-Permit-Holders-Across-the-United-States.pdf

I hope it happens, I really do. I am just disappointed because I predict the body count would go up if more guns are introduced and that would be the only way to correct your thinking, highlighting the awful sense of foresight you have. Thanks for the insight.

 

[Quetzal]

If legislation was introduced to mandate background checks and cool down periods, and the following year the number dropped to 8,500. Would that be worth it to you?

It is adorable the way everyone danced around the question. But I will wait.

 

[rocketman]

You are avoiding the question. You brought up the comparison regarding cars and I asked you: Do you believe the roads are safer due to the laws that punish drunk driving and driving under the influence? Yes or no?

No...Drunk drivers still exist, still kill, and make up 31% of all driving fatalities, and you can add another approx 12% on top of that due to legal & illegal drug impairment. That would make up almost half of all driving fatalities due to those that choose to break the law. More laws don't stop lawbreakers, only inconvenience those that will follow the law.

 

[rocketman]

It is adorable the way everyone danced around the question. But I will wait.

Already answered it....No, because you can not guarantee the result, it is a question based upon platitudes & wishful thinking.

 

[rocketman]

I hope it happens, I really do. I am just disappointed because I predict the body count would go up if more guns are introduced and that would be the only way to correct your thinking, highlighting the awful sense of foresight you have. Thanks for the insight.

The data shows that my foresight is spot on for crime deterrence. The data also shows that the liberal gun control model only hurts legal gun owners....your model currently is making the body count go up.

 

[musterion]

So, it is your assertion that the guns being used in crimes in Chicago are bought legally from the burbs? Really, the problem is not the legal purchase of guns but, trafficking of weapons into Chicago from "straw purchases" & other illegal means from out of state. Your ten minute drive to the burbs scenario is just not the case in Chicago and even with stricter rules criminals will find a way to kill in Chicago...it is the hearts of men that must change if you want murder to decrease, gun control is just an attempt to treat the symptom, while ignoring the disease.

Go easy on him. He's too stupid to realize he's making your point.

 

[Quetzal]

No...Drunk drivers still exist, still kill, and make up 31% of all driving fatalities, and you can add another approx 12% on top of that due to legal & illegal drug impairment. That would make up almost half of all driving fatalities due to those that choose to break the law. More laws don't stop lawbreakers, only inconvenience those that will follow the law.

By making that affirmation do you also agree that if those laws were instantly revoked, we would see no change in the statistics?