ECT "It is not through the Law that Abraham recieved the promise..." Rom 4

[Interplanner]

There is ever a fine line between believing a thing, and what it is that one thinks one is believing.

In this - EVERYONE - is "a believer."

Question is - what are they believing about what they are believing in.

There is ever a key, important difference, between "simple" and "oversimplied" (or "simplistic").

ase speak directly instead of around things and about views of things. I have no idea what you are countering. It would help if you actually said things about Acts 13 and 26 instead of the maze of out of focus perceptions of this person and that heretic.

 

[Danoh]

ase speak directly instead of around things and about views of things. I have no idea what you are countering. It would help if you actually said things about Acts 13 and 26 instead of the maze of out of focus perceptions of this person and that heretic.

Why is that?

Why is it that when others assert you are speaking in riddles, I assert I understood you just fine?

Why is it that when you post having failed to understand what another had meant and I then post what they had meant, they then basically repeat what I explained?

Why is it I appear to be talking in riddles to you?

Because I look at things through, and post in...operating principles.

Operating principles allow seeing finer distinctions.

This is also why you remain absolutely clueless about Mad.

Nick, heir, Steko, STP, Tambora, RD et al, very often do oblige you your request - you still see nothing.

It is YOU.

Your thinking through a thing is within an outlook long since hardened harder than marble.

Truth of the matter as to Christ and His Mystery where you look at things from?

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You are an expert amateur - there is no getting through to you, be it via the passages, or operating principles :chuckle:

Yours is the luck of Martin Luther having reasoned "at" thing and gotten it right only accidentally.

For soon after that, the Reformed manner of reasoning "at" a thing was where the Reformed school has remained to this very day; its brief moment of light as to The Things That Differ, completely overshadowed by its Platonic "Greeks seek after wisdom...wisdom of words..."

Your system is a joke, brother.

 

[Interplanner]

Why is that?

Why is it that when others assert you are speaking in riddles, I assert I understood you just fine?

Why is it that when you post having failed to understand what another had meant and I then post what they had meant, they then basically repeat what I explained?

Why is it I appear to be talking in riddles to you?

Because I look at things through, and post in...operating principles.

Operating principles allow seeing finer distinctions.

This is also why you remain absolutely clueless about Mad.

Nick, heir, Steko, STP, Tambora, RD et al, very often do oblige you your request - you still see nothing.

It is YOU.

Your thinking through a thing is within an outlook long since hardened harder than marble.

Truth of the matter as to Christ and His Mystery where you look at things from?

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

You are an expert amateur - there is no getting through to you, be it via the passages, or operating principles :chuckle:

Yours is the luck of Martin Luther having reasoned "at" thing and gotten it right only accidentally.

For soon after that, the Reformed manner of reasoning "at" a thing was where the Reformed school has remained to this very day; its brief moment of light as to The Things That Differ, completely overshadowed by its Platonic "Greeks seek after wisdom...wisdom of words..."

Your system is a joke, brother.

Once again (100x) you refuse to actually make comments on Acts 13 and 26 and their implications about the topic. Instead you are an expert on my head from X000 miles away on the internet. An expert at calling people fools and idiots. Enjoy your certification in that.

Oh, but if there is an unrelated passage that you can use to abuse me, you fire away.

Actually, on this topic, the point for you that would be meaningful is to explain the distance between the law and the promise. Because when the Promise is being fulfilled in Christ, it is apart from the Law as it was historically. that's why the MAD thesis that 'the OT ends in early Acts' is totally backwards and dysfunctional. They had always been separated. Gal 3 says it was Judaism that made them interlocked.

Do you think some day you will actually use the principles of Gal 3 to ground everything?

 

[Lazy afternoon]

According to Heb.ch 11,

all the saints including Abraham will inherit the earth when the Holy City they look for to enter, does come down, (with Christ in it)

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

LA

 

[andyc]

:chuckle:

I see people seated in Christ far ABOVE all heavens.
I see people going into a City that comes DOWN from heaven.

That's 2.

And the meek shall inherit the earth.

That's 3.

This is what happens when people just take words out of context.

Let's deal with this..

I see people going into a City that comes DOWN from heaven.

Heaven that is descriptive of the spiritual real is unseen in the natural. So you cannot have an unseen spiritual city coming down to a natural realm. Therefore what is being described is a completely new kingdom set up with God and man dwelling together. This new kingdom is prepared by Christ.

John 13-36 - 14:3
Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered him, "Where I am going you cannot follow Me now, but you shall follow Me afterward." ........................."Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. "In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

Here we see Jesus saying that he was going to heaven to prepare a place for his disciples, and that they would later join him there. Paul confirmed the same......

Philippians 1:21-23 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. For I am hard pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

Now let's deal with the other point.

And the meek shall inherit the earth.

This is just a quotation from a Psalm talking about the meek prospering. It's not talking about a literal inheriting of planet earth LOL, but to inherit the land that is rightfully their's. The Hebrew and Greek word for "earth" is also translated land in other verses, but there is nothing wrong saying the meek shall inherit the earth, if it's understood as a figure of speech meaning to prosper. Even David wasn't out to conquer the world.

Also, in Matthew 5:5 Jesus said, "the meek shall inherit the earth", but in verses 3 and 10, Jesus said that, the poor in Spirit, and those persecuted for righteousness sake, theirs is the kingdom of heaven. So unless you believe there are different gospels to the meek and poor in spirit (which I wouldn't put it past you), it's obvious that Jesus was talking about the meek inheriting the land (kingdom of God / heaven) in verse 5.

 

[andyc]

One of the mistakes that dispensationalists make, is that they fail to understand that God is not really interested in kings ruling. We have to remember that it was God's desire to reign in the hearts of his people Israel, and that they wouldn't have a king.
And so the whole dispensationalist fantasy is to have Jesus ruling in Jerusalem over his people, which is totally against God's nature.

Nope, it's not God's plan, and it never was God's plan. It's the plan of humanistic faithless people (mad fits that category BTW).
When the Israelite's wanted a king, God was displeased because it meant that they had rejected him. However, because they asked for a king, they got one. Here's the point that dispies can't understand, when people think alike in their worship of God, a king is not necessary. The problem is when there is conflict, and defiance against God's truth. Right now Christ is king, but only until he has put an end to all authority rule and power. At this time the kingdom is given back to God, and this will be the end kings ruling.

The whole idea of Jesus sitting in Jerusalem ruling of people, is pure fantasy.

 

[Interplanner]

One of the mistakes that dispensationalists make, is that they fail to understand that God is not really interested in kings ruling. We have to remember that it was God's desire to reign in the hearts of his people Israel, and that they wouldn't have a king.
And so the whole dispensationalist fantasy is to have Jesus ruling in Jerusalem over his people, which is totally against God's nature.

Nope, it's not God's plan, and it never was God's plan. It's the plan of humanistic faithless people (mad fits that category BTW).
When the Israelite's wanted a king, God was displeased because it meant that they had rejected him. However, because they asked for a king, they got one. Here's the point that dispies can't understand, when people think alike in their worship of God, a king is not necessary. The problem is when there is conflict, and defiance against God's truth. Right now Christ is king, but only until he has put an end to all authority rule and power. At this time the kingdom is given back to God, and this will be the end kings ruling.

The whole idea of Jesus sitting in Jerusalem ruling of people, is pure fantasy.

Or it was a training/mentoring image which the prophets could use to explain the unfamiliar by using the familiar. Everywhere you look in the OT, the dimensions are usually too large to just be in Jerusalem, starting with Dan 2:44.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

According to Heb.ch 11,

all the saints including Abraham will inherit the earth when the Holy City they look for to enter, does come down, (with Christ in it)

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

LA

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

:chuckle:

It's the NHNE. That's why there is no "land forever." There's no earth forever! Not unless you weasle with the language Peter gave about how it will be changed, 2 Pet 3. But then you'd have to do the same thing with how creation and the deluge happened.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There's no earth forever!

:chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

:chuckle:

You don't really think the NHNE is the same as this place when God and the Lamb are the temple and the light, do you? I'm not even sure there is physical reality as we know it.