ECT Israel's Prophetic Clock stopped in 70AD, not in Mid Acts

[tetelestai]

If prophesy can be fulfilled spiritually, there was no need for Israel to return physically to their land from their Babylonian captivity.

Since you want to make the land (a physical place) spiritual instead of physical, one could just as easily make Bethlehem (a physical place) spiritual instead of physical.

Everything was physical up to and including Christ Jesus.

Everything afterwards in found IN CHRIST JESUS.

Christ Jesus is the fulfillment.

Rest is found in Christ Jesus, not a piece of land in the Middle East.

 

[tetelestai]

If Peter completely believed that the earth had been destroyed by the flood,(not an analogy) why would he then describe the worlds second destruction/judgment in the same real aspect of devastation,(fire instead of water),,if it was an analogy ?

The second destruction/judgment was real. It wasn't upon the whole world, it was upon the Jews, Jerusalem, and Judah. Over a million Jews were killed, and Jerusalem was completely destroyed with not one stone standing upon another.

Peter, then looks forward in time past the events of 70ad and states that "there will come scoffers in the last days saying that all remains ,,ect." ,,,so it would seem Peter did not regard the events about to take place in ad70 to be the fulfillment of the events he describes in 2peter3,,,[/QUOTE]

Yes Peter did.

Peter referred to the time he lived as "these last times"

(1 Peter 1:20) He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

And:

(1 Peter 4:7) “The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.”

And:

(1 Peter 4:17) For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household;...

 

[tetelestai]

been there done that,,,your still missing a head "wounded unto death",,and a mark.

We're talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was the fulfillment of many prophecies. So, how could Israel's prophetic clock have stopped in Mid-Acts, and then prophecies for Israel fulfilled in 70AD?

 

[tetelestai]

thing 2, Matthew 23:39 KJV (they realize their mistake and acknowledge Jesus as "the one to come"

This is where you and your fellow Darby followers are way off.

You guys think that one day all the Jews are going to all of the sudden go "OH...", and then say "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord".

That's not what the verse says.

 

[tetelestai]

Today is April 16 2016 as of today they still deny that Jesus is/was the "one to come=messiah/king" Luke 21:24 KJV and will remain blinded in part until the times of the gentiles are full Romans 11:25 KJV

The only people blinded are you Darby Followers.

Those who have faith in Christ Jesus are the children of Abraham.

Everything that had to do with physical Israel, Jews, the temple, the law of Moses, etc. came to a complete end in 70AD.

We now live in the New Covenant. There is no longer a difference between Jew and Gentile.

Quit following Darby, and believe what the Bible says. It's all about Christ Jesus, not land in the Middle East.

 

[Interplanner]

And Rom 11 is not expressed to guarantee anything after that fulness of the Gentiles. It was an expression in Judaism about this entire age of Messiah, which followed the age of the Law. The next thing is not a reinstatement of the old covenant or dealings in Israel but the NHNE.

 

[Cross Reference]

And Rom 11 is not expressed to guarantee anything after that fulness of the Gentiles. It was an expression in Judaism about this entire age of Messiah, which followed the age of the Law. The next thing is not a reinstatement of the old covenant or dealings in Israel but the NHNE.

Who cares??? It's all irrelevant in the scheme of things. Why? Because it was accomplished 2K years ago.

 

[whitestone]

We're talking about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was the fulfillment of many prophecies. So, how could Israel's prophetic clock have stopped in Mid-Acts, and then prophecies for Israel fulfilled in 70AD?

lol,your using the wording "prophetic clock STOPPED",,,in general dispies say "paused,parentheses" as in that they are still to be fulfilled.

You in 70asim say "stopped" to stress that all has been fulfilled by ad70,so you seek a "stopping point" at ad66-70. Now this to you seems necessary to word it this way but if you notice if dispies say that Israel will again be a kingdom on earth and that they will receive Jesus as the Messiah/king then "stopped" would not apply,,,"paused,in parentheses" though does.

So after this period of time when satin is loosed a little season and he goes out to deceive the earth,when Gog and Magog is deceived and goes up against Israel and are destroyed will you still say "oh no all this stopped in ad70"?

 

[tetelestai]

lol,your using the wording "prophetic clock STOPPED",,,in general dispies say "paused,parentheses" as in that they are still to be fulfilled.

Whether "paused" or "stopped", the point remains.

Using your word "paused":

If Israel's prophetic clock was paused in Mid-Acts, why were prophecies for Israel fulfilled in 70AD?

Did the paused clock start ticking again somewhere around 66AD, then get paused again in 70AD?

 

[tetelestai]

when Gog and Magog is deceived and goes up against Israel

Just a side-note:

I never understood why Dispensationalists like Hal Lindsay have Gog and Magog invading Israel before the millenium, when Rev 20:8 clearly has Gog and Magog invading at the end of the millenium.

 

[Danoh]

You might have called yourself a dispensationalist for 25 years, but you didn't have the slightest clue what one actually was. You believed in a caricature of dispensationalism, the stawman you now so energetically attack... Not the actual one.

:thumb:

 

[Danoh]

here is the prophetic clock,,,that is if we were to trust Peter. Now Peter says what he said here and also then says that Paul,our beloved brother also explained the very thing that is hard to be explained.

here is the text,why did Peter say that our beloved brother Paul had explained the thing hard to be understood about the destruction of fire? Where did Paul explain it in such detail that Peter endorsed it?... http://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_peter/3.htm ,,,,,Peter trusted Paul's teaching on this matter,Follow Paul.

Another point being that of Peter's apparent speaking from his observation of that kind of misunderstanding being one he had observed some had ended up at.

This is something related not only throughout Paul's writings, but also in Acts, in light of Paul's writings.

 

[Danoh]

Look at verse 3

(2 Peter 3:3) Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.

Now, let's look at Jude:

(Jude 1:17-19) But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. 18 They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

As we see above, Jude confirms that what Peter said about scoffers, was taking place during Jude's lifetime.

Therefore, Jude confirms that "the last days" took place in the first century.



I believe the flood was real.

However, I believe the "fire" Peter spoke of was not literal.

Paul tells us the following:

(1 Cor 3:13) their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person's work.

Paul is not speaking of literal "fire" in the above passage.

Neither is Paul speaking of what Peter is, you imbecile.

 

[Danoh]

Just a side-note:

I never understood why Dispensationalists like Hal Lindsay have Gog and Magog invading Israel before the millenium, when Rev 20:8 clearly has Gog and Magog invading at the end of the millenium.

Yo, RD - there's this fool's 25 years - Hal Lindsay :rotfl:

 

[Danoh]

Whether "paused" or "stopped", the point remains.

Using your word "paused":

If Israel's prophetic clock was paused in Mid-Acts, why were prophecies for Israel fulfilled in 70AD?

Did the paused clock start ticking again somewhere around 66AD, then get paused again in 70AD?

No :chuckle:

 

[steko]

Just a side-note:

I never understood why Dispensationalists like Hal Lindsay have Gog and Magog invading Israel before the millenium, when Rev 20:8 clearly has Gog and Magog invading at the end of the millenium.

Ezekiel 36,37,38,39 clearly takes place before the Davidic Messianic reign.

Rev 20:7-8 clearly takes place after the release of Satan from the pit after the 'mil' has passed.

I can't explain the use of the term 'Gog and Magog' in Rev 20, unless it is a term that is used to later symbolically describe a similar horde of armies.

 

[Tambora]

Read the whole chapter Tam.

Daniel made a distinction

(Dan 9:7) “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame—the people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you.

In verse 20, Daniel was praying for all of Israel (both Judah & Israel).

However, the 70 weeks were for Daniel and his people, the Jews from Judah and Jerusalem....NOT the Israelites from Israel. Those Israelites were "not a people" anymore.

Daniel 9 KJV​

(20) And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;​

​

​

(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.​

Pretty clear that Daniel says his people is Israel.
And yes, Daniel's prayer was for all of Israel (his people).
And the angel Gabriel came to answer his prayer that was for all of Israel (his people).

 

[Tambora]

Just a side-note:

I never understood why Dispensationalists like Hal Lindsay have Gog and Magog invading Israel before the millenium, when Rev 20:8 clearly has Gog and Magog invading at the end of the millenium.

In your view, has the end of the millennium happened yet?

 

[Cross Reference]

Just a side-note:

I never understood why Dispensationalists like Hal Lindsay have Gog and Magog invading Israel before the millenium, when Rev 20:8 clearly has Gog and Magog invading at the end of the millenium.

Really? Clearly???

 

[patrick jane]

Read the whole chapter Tam.

Daniel made a distinction

(Dan 9:7) “Lord, you are righteous, but this day we are covered with shame—the people of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, both near and far, in all the countries where you have scattered us because of our unfaithfulness to you.

In verse 20, Daniel was praying for all of Israel (both Judah & Israel).

However, the 70 weeks were for Daniel and his people, the Jews from Judah and Jerusalem....NOT the Israelites from Israel. Those Israelites were "not a people" anymore.

1 Kings 11:11-13
(11) Therefore the LORD said to Solomon, “Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. (12) “Nevertheless I will not do it in your days, for the sake of your father David; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. (13) “However I will not tear away the whole kingdom; I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen.”