So, if you have a burger and a soda are you partaking?
ECT Israel's New Covenant and the Body of Christ
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Romans 11:25-26
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved...
1 Corinthians 11:33 :chew:
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Romans 11: 25-26 has to be kept in a separate compartment in order to prevent other New Testament scriptures from making evident and outstanding in perception different and opposite doctrines.
In Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes about two groups who are both of the physical bloodline, one he calls children of the flesh who are not the children of God and another group the children of the promise who are the seed, that is, the elect group.
The Christian Zionist view that the multitude of Old Covenant Israel is to be saved in Romans 11: 26 depends upon them being recognized by God as being of the chosen physical bloodline. Any New Testament scripture which teaches that the physical bloodline was done away with in the New Covenant undermines Christian Zionism. The Old Testament prophecies that God will make an eternal covenant with Israel mean that the dispensationalist postulate that God will return to a "dispensation" of law and to other Old Covenant rules for the physical bloodline is not to happen.
in Isaiah 55: 3 - God promises that "I will make an everlasting covenant with you." Since the Old Covenant was done away with (II Corinthians 3: 7, 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 9), then the covenant which is to be everlasting is the New Covenant. Isaiah 61: 8, Jeremiah 32: 40, Jeremiah 50: 5,Ezekiel 16: 60 and Ezekiel 37: 26 all repeat the promise that God will make an everlasting covenant with Israel.
"Are ye so unwise, that after ye have begun in the spirit, ye would now end in the flesh?.......... Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was ascribed to him for righteousness." 7 Understand, therefore, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 For the scripture saw aforehand, that God would justify the heathen through faith, and therefore showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham: "In thee shall all nations be blessed." 9 So then, they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.............. But Christ hath delivered us from the curse of the law, and was made accursed for us — for it is written, "Cursed is everyone that hangeth on tree" — 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith. 1........To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "in the seeds," as in many: But, "in thy seed," as in one, which is Christ. 17 This I say, that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed afore of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise............. For ye are all the sons of God, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 27 For all ye that are baptised, have put on Christ. 28 Now is there no Jew, neither gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither man nor woman: but ye are all one thing in Christ Jesus. 29 If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs by promise." Galatians 3.
Interpret scripture by other scripture rather than by John Darby, C.I Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer.
In Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes about two groups who are both of the physical bloodline, one he calls children of the flesh who are not the children of God and another group the children of the promise who are the seed, that is, the elect group.
The Christian Zionist view that the multitude of Old Covenant Israel is to be saved in Romans 11: 26 depends upon them being recognized by God as being of the chosen physical bloodline. Any New Testament scripture which teaches that the physical bloodline was done away with in the New Covenant undermines Christian Zionism. The Old Testament prophecies that God will make an eternal covenant with Israel mean that the dispensationalist postulate that God will return to a "dispensation" of law and to other Old Covenant rules for the physical bloodline is not to happen.
in Isaiah 55: 3 - God promises that "I will make an everlasting covenant with you." Since the Old Covenant was done away with (II Corinthians 3: 7, 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 9), then the covenant which is to be everlasting is the New Covenant. Isaiah 61: 8, Jeremiah 32: 40, Jeremiah 50: 5,Ezekiel 16: 60 and Ezekiel 37: 26 all repeat the promise that God will make an everlasting covenant with Israel.
"Are ye so unwise, that after ye have begun in the spirit, ye would now end in the flesh?.......... Even as Abraham "believed God, and it was ascribed to him for righteousness." 7 Understand, therefore, that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 For the scripture saw aforehand, that God would justify the heathen through faith, and therefore showed beforehand glad tidings unto Abraham: "In thee shall all nations be blessed." 9 So then, they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.............. But Christ hath delivered us from the curse of the law, and was made accursed for us — for it is written, "Cursed is everyone that hangeth on tree" — 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the gentiles through Jesus Christ, and that we might receive the promise of the spirit through faith. 1........To Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, "in the seeds," as in many: But, "in thy seed," as in one, which is Christ. 17 This I say, that the law which began afterward, beyond four hundred and thirty years, doth not disannul the testament, that was confirmed afore of God unto Christ ward, to make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance come of the law, it cometh not of promise: but God gave it unto Abraham by promise............. For ye are all the sons of God, by the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 27 For all ye that are baptised, have put on Christ. 28 Now is there no Jew, neither gentile, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither man nor woman: but ye are all one thing in Christ Jesus. 29 If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs by promise." Galatians 3.
Interpret scripture by other scripture rather than by John Darby, C.I Scofield and Lewis S. Chafer.
"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." Romans 11: 25-26
αχρις is an important Greek word in this sentence. It can mean until or while.
Look at Matthew 24: 14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
"...for a witness to all the ethnesin and then shall the end come."
In Romans 11: 25 the word is εθνων, ethnon. Why is it translated as Gentiles there and as nations in Matthew 24: 14?
εθνων,or ethnos, Strong's number 1484, "Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
εθνων in Romans 11: 25 translated as nations would make this verse say "Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the nations (or peoples) be come in."
Romans 11: 25-26 says that blindness is happened to Israel until (or while) all Gentiles (ethnos) who are to be saved are saved, and so in this way all Israel shall be saved.
Matthew 24: 14 says the Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations or peoples (ethnos); and then shall the end come." When the Gospel has been preached to all the ethnos, then it is the end.
Putting Romans 11: 25-26 together with Matthew 24: 14 would mean that when all those not of the physical bloodline, called Gentiles in Romans 11: 25, are saved, then the end has come, and Christ has appeared, and all his elect, both the dead and the living elect, are changed and given spiritual bodies.. This is the
last day when Christ promises in John 6 - several times - that he will raise up the elect.
αχρις is an important Greek word in this sentence. It can mean until or while.
Look at Matthew 24: 14, "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
"...for a witness to all the ethnesin and then shall the end come."
In Romans 11: 25 the word is εθνων, ethnon. Why is it translated as Gentiles there and as nations in Matthew 24: 14?
εθνων,or ethnos, Strong's number 1484, "Gentile, heathen, nation, people."
εθνων in Romans 11: 25 translated as nations would make this verse say "Blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the nations (or peoples) be come in."
Romans 11: 25-26 says that blindness is happened to Israel until (or while) all Gentiles (ethnos) who are to be saved are saved, and so in this way all Israel shall be saved.
Matthew 24: 14 says the Gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world as a witness to all nations or peoples (ethnos); and then shall the end come." When the Gospel has been preached to all the ethnos, then it is the end.
Putting Romans 11: 25-26 together with Matthew 24: 14 would mean that when all those not of the physical bloodline, called Gentiles in Romans 11: 25, are saved, then the end has come, and Christ has appeared, and all his elect, both the dead and the living elect, are changed and given spiritual bodies.. This is the
last day when Christ promises in John 6 - several times - that he will raise up the elect.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Right Divider
Body part
:spam:
Right Divider
Body part
Heb 9:15 (KJV)
(9:15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
How does THAT involve YOU?
How many transgressions did YOU have UNDER the FIRST TESTAMENT?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I've asked 20 times, but he conveniently has me on ignore.
Right Divider
Body part
He ignores me even when he allegedly reads my posts.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:idunno:
IP is scouring his commentaries for an "answer".
He cannot just simply admit that he has never been blessed or cursed based on his obedience to the law of Moses.
Jerry Shugart,
A very perceptive question!! I just hope that you really want to know the truth. What I will say and show from God's word is not very understood by people claiming to be Christians, but all Christians MUST understand this precept.
Now, you know that Jesus instituted the New Covenant on the night before his death. This was the same day, because, in the first century the Jews started their day in the evening.
In the first century, and until a certain number was accepted into the Christian Congregation, all who were Christians, took part in the taking of the wine and the unleavened bread. This is because ALL the first 144,000 would go to heaven and be co-rulers with Jesus, as Kings and Priests, Revelation 20:4-7, Romans 8:14-17. Remember, The Kingdom of God is like any Kingdom, it has both rulers and subjects. The ones taking part in the First Resurrection will be the rulers that will be taken from the earth to me Spirit creatures, in heaven. The subjects will live on earth, which will be brought to a perfect condition, with all who love God given Everlasting life, in Paradise. This living on earth forever was God's purpose when He created Adam and Eve, and it is still His purpose, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, 115:15,16.
All the ones who go to heaven will be Born Again, Born as Spirits, a New Creation, 2Corinthians 5:16,17, Galatians 6:14-16. There are several titles that distinguish the ones that will go to heaven to be Kings and Priests, Born again, John 3:6,7, John 1:12,13, 1Corinthians 15:50, 42-49, 51-56. These ones, of the first resurrection are taken from earth to be Kings and Priests because God wanted people who had lived as humans to rule over mankind who would live on earth. These ones are also ADOPTED by God to be Brothers of Jesus, Matthew 25:31,32,40.
Keep remembering the the first 144,000 will go to heaven to rule in God's Kingdom, the vast majority of Christians will live through The Great Tribulation to live forever on earth, Revelation 7:3,4, these are SEALED, a relatively small group, when compared with The Great Crowd that come out of the Great Tribulation, Revelation 7:14. These sealed ones have also been ANOINTED by God, just as Jesus was, 2Corinthians 1:21,22, 1John 2:27. These will rule over the earth helping to bring the earth to the perfect condition that was God's purpose, they follow Jesus wherever he goes, Revelation 14:1-5.
Keep in mind that God did not want men to die, and when God states His propose, it is certain to come true, Isaiah 55:11, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Revelation 21:1-5.
One other point to keep in mind, when Jesus comes back to earth, he will resurrect the anointed in the first resurrection, they will be immortal in heaven, and they will take part in Armageddon, the only time that Jesus will rule with an iron rod, Psalms 2:8,9, Isaiah 11:2-4, Revelation 19:11-15. Notice that the Anointed, the 144,000 will be with Jesus, and also rule with an iron rod the same as Jesus, Revelation 2:25-27.
After the first Resurrection there will be the general resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, and some of these will die, but the rulers in heaven cannot die, they are immortal, John 5:28,25, Acts 24:14,15.
After all things take place, the earth will be in the condition that God originally purpose it, full of righteous, perfect people living in a paradise earth, with endless life. Agape!!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
A very perceptive question!! I just hope that you really want to know the truth. What I will say and show from God's word is not very understood by people claiming to be Christians, but all Christians MUST understand this precept.
Now, you know that Jesus instituted the New Covenant on the night before his death. This was the same day, because, in the first century the Jews started their day in the evening.
In the first century, and until a certain number was accepted into the Christian Congregation, all who were Christians, took part in the taking of the wine and the unleavened bread. This is because ALL the first 144,000 would go to heaven and be co-rulers with Jesus, as Kings and Priests, Revelation 20:4-7, Romans 8:14-17. Remember, The Kingdom of God is like any Kingdom, it has both rulers and subjects. The ones taking part in the First Resurrection will be the rulers that will be taken from the earth to me Spirit creatures, in heaven. The subjects will live on earth, which will be brought to a perfect condition, with all who love God given Everlasting life, in Paradise. This living on earth forever was God's purpose when He created Adam and Eve, and it is still His purpose, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Psalms 37:29, 115:15,16.
All the ones who go to heaven will be Born Again, Born as Spirits, a New Creation, 2Corinthians 5:16,17, Galatians 6:14-16. There are several titles that distinguish the ones that will go to heaven to be Kings and Priests, Born again, John 3:6,7, John 1:12,13, 1Corinthians 15:50, 42-49, 51-56. These ones, of the first resurrection are taken from earth to be Kings and Priests because God wanted people who had lived as humans to rule over mankind who would live on earth. These ones are also ADOPTED by God to be Brothers of Jesus, Matthew 25:31,32,40.
Keep remembering the the first 144,000 will go to heaven to rule in God's Kingdom, the vast majority of Christians will live through The Great Tribulation to live forever on earth, Revelation 7:3,4, these are SEALED, a relatively small group, when compared with The Great Crowd that come out of the Great Tribulation, Revelation 7:14. These sealed ones have also been ANOINTED by God, just as Jesus was, 2Corinthians 1:21,22, 1John 2:27. These will rule over the earth helping to bring the earth to the perfect condition that was God's purpose, they follow Jesus wherever he goes, Revelation 14:1-5.
Keep in mind that God did not want men to die, and when God states His propose, it is certain to come true, Isaiah 55:11, Genesis 1:26-28, Isaiah 45:18, Revelation 21:1-5.
One other point to keep in mind, when Jesus comes back to earth, he will resurrect the anointed in the first resurrection, they will be immortal in heaven, and they will take part in Armageddon, the only time that Jesus will rule with an iron rod, Psalms 2:8,9, Isaiah 11:2-4, Revelation 19:11-15. Notice that the Anointed, the 144,000 will be with Jesus, and also rule with an iron rod the same as Jesus, Revelation 2:25-27.
After the first Resurrection there will be the general resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous, and some of these will die, but the rulers in heaven cannot die, they are immortal, John 5:28,25, Acts 24:14,15.
After all things take place, the earth will be in the condition that God originally purpose it, full of righteous, perfect people living in a paradise earth, with endless life. Agape!!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
musterion
Well-known member
That right there would end the thread -- heck, the bold in Jerry's OP should have -- but for rampant unbelief of those who break in and steal what God gave to Israel.
Poor use of Strong's, northwye (in your post repeated in the Spoiler below).
The sense of the word in question is generally that of the more generic physical peoples and or nations.
In contrast, the sense of Gentiles or heathen is determined by the particular narrative, theme, scope, context, structure at issue - not by looking up a definition in Strong's.
And not only is Rom. 11:25 before the Lord's return, and Rom. 11:26 is after said return, but Matt. 24:14 is divided into it's mentioned preaching as being after His return, and it's mentioned end as being way after said preaching.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
The sense of the word in question is generally that of the more generic physical peoples and or nations.
In contrast, the sense of Gentiles or heathen is determined by the particular narrative, theme, scope, context, structure at issue - not by looking up a definition in Strong's.
And not only is Rom. 11:25 before the Lord's return, and Rom. 11:26 is after said return, but Matt. 24:14 is divided into it's mentioned preaching as being after His return, and it's mentioned end as being way after said preaching.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
Spoiler
Interplanner
Well-known member
STP,
I see you still tinker with Heb 8:8. Meaning: the way the rest of chs 9-10 complete destroys the idea you think it contains. It's all about 9:15 which is the core of what the passage is saying. Stop looking for soundbytes about otherwise. It destroys the Bible without lighting a match.
I see you still tinker with Heb 8:8. Meaning: the way the rest of chs 9-10 complete destroys the idea you think it contains. It's all about 9:15 which is the core of what the passage is saying. Stop looking for soundbytes about otherwise. It destroys the Bible without lighting a match.
musterion
Well-known member
Observe how IP goes about proving his point.
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-about-D-ism&p=5077075&viewfull=1#post5077075
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-about-D-ism&p=5077075&viewfull=1#post5077075
There's hope for you yet, STP - apparently IP has allowed you back into his grace :chuckle:
Rom. 5:8
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
When were you EVER under the first covenant? Details.
The word "new" is an adjective of the noun covenant.
Why was this "new" covenant new?
Paul explains that the "new" covenant was not annulled by the Sinaitic covenant.
The covenant with Abraham and Christ was only new because it was not being practiced.
Christ came to fulfill the covenant made with him and Abraham.
Why was this "new" covenant new?
Paul explains that the "new" covenant was not annulled by the Sinaitic covenant.
The covenant with Abraham and Christ was only new because it was not being practiced.
Christ came to fulfill the covenant made with him and Abraham.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Correct, they had not received the promise, they had not received the rest, and were not yet partakers of Christ.