Israel, Torah, and a Citizen of the United States of America. Hebrews 8:6-13

Jacob

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Jeremiah 31:31-36 Will be fulfilled when Jesus returns to Israel, and then "all Israel will be saved".
For now, Israel (true Jews) has rejected the sacrificial death and shed blood of Jesus, and preferred to be under the bondage of Torah (ie: Moses).
Those that are under the Law are not under Grace. They are "working" for their own "salvation".

I am of Israel and I observe the Torah. I am not under the Law I am under grace. I am not working for my own salvation.

I accept Matthew through Revelation. Do you?

It is apparent in Matthew through Revelation that the New Covenant has already come.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

beameup

New member
I am of Israel and I observe the Torah. I am not under the Law I am under grace. I am not working for my own salvation.
Jacob

Israel is in the Middle-East, not in Washington State.
If you are Israeli, you live in Israel and await the arrival of Messiah.
Those of the Body of Christ are not under Moses (Torah/Law).
 

Jacob

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Israel is in the Middle-East, not in Washington State.
If you are Israeli, you live in Israel and await the arrival of Messiah.
Those of the Body of Christ are not under Moses (Torah/Law).

I am of Israel, an Israelite. I belong to Israel. I am not an Israeli because I do not live in Israel. However, I have been called an Israeli here in the United States of America so I am not needing to argue the point. I have said that an Israeli is someone from Israel. I am not.

I live in Tacoma in Washington State. I am a Citizen of the United States of America. I have never been to the Middle-East or Israel.

We await the return of our Messiah.

For the Body of Christ, the Body of Messiah, we have the New Covenant and Salvation in being Born Again, yes? That is where I want to know if Paul was writing to Gentile believers at Corinth with his letter or epistle (I don't know the difference; is an epistle a letter?) 1 Corinthians. See 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

beameup

New member
For the Body of Christ, the Body of Messiah, we have the New Covenant and Salvation in being Born Again, yes? That is where I want to know if Paul was writing to Gentile believers at Corinth with his letter or epistle (I don't know the difference; is an epistle a letter?) 1 Corinthians. See 1 Corinthians 11:25.
Jacob

The Gentiles were not required to adopt Judaism, they were not required to follow the Torah (Moses).
It does appear that the "Last Supper" was a popular ceremony; however, it appears some Gentiles didn't understand the serenity of the ceremony.
BTW, what was the Gentile "Old Covenant"?
 

Jacob

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The Gentiles were not required to adopt Judaism, they were not required to follow the Torah (Moses).
It does appear that the "Last Supper" was a popular ceremony; however, it appears some Gentiles didn't understand the serenity of the ceremony.
BTW, what was the Gentile "Old Covenant"?

Shalom.

Today is Shlishli (Third) 12-26. It is Boker, Morning. It is Yom, Day.

God's Word always remains. Gentiles who have turned to God have no greater burden than these necessary things spoken of here to observe.

Acts 15:1-41 NKJV - 1 And certain [men] came down from Judea and taught the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses." 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up [and] said to them: "Men [and] brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 "So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as [He did] to us, 9 "and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 "Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 "But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." 12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, "Men [and] brethren, listen to me: 14 "Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 "And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.' 18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 "but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, [from] sexual immorality, [from] things strangled, and [from] blood. 21 "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, [namely], Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this [letter] by them: The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "[You must] be circumcised and keep the law"--to whom we gave no [such] commandment-- 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. 30 So when they were sent off, they came to Antioch; and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the letter. 31 When they had read it, they rejoiced over its encouragement. 32 Now Judas and Silas, themselves being prophets also, exhorted and strengthened the brethren with many words. 33 And after they had stayed [there] for a time, they were sent back with greetings from the brethren to the apostles. 34 However, it seemed good to Silas to remain there. 35 Paul and Barnabas also remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. 36 Then after some days Paul said to Barnabas, "Let us now go back and visit our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the Lord, [and see] how they are doing." 37 Now Barnabas was determined to take with them John called Mark. 38 But Paul insisted that they should not take with them the one who had departed from them in Pamphylia, and had not gone with them to the work. 39 Then the contention became so sharp that they parted from one another. And so Barnabas took Mark and sailed to Cyprus; 40 but Paul chose Silas and departed, being commended by the brethren to the grace of God. 41 And he went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

It is my belief that the things spoken of here are contained in the Torah.

I do not know how to answer your Last Supper comment or question. I understand that some Bibles have the words Last Supper in them. Do you know or want to learn anything about Pesach, Passover? It is practiced by those of Israel who observe Torah.

Luke 22:1-71 NKJV - 1 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called Passover. 2 And the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might kill Him, for they feared the people. 3 Then Satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve. 4 So he went his way and conferred with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray Him to them. 5 And they were glad, and agreed to give him money. 6 So he promised and sought opportunity to betray Him to them in the absence of the multitude. 7 Then came the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed. 8 And He sent Peter and John, saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat." 9 So they said to Him, "Where do You want us to prepare?" 10 And He said to them, "Behold, when you have entered the city, a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him into the house which he enters. 11 "Then you shall say to the master of the house, 'The Teacher says to you, "Where is the guest room where I may eat the Passover with My disciples?" ' 12 "Then he will show you a large, furnished upper room; there make ready." 13 So they went and found it just as He had said to them, and they prepared the Passover. 14 When the hour had come, He sat down, and the twelve apostles with Him. 15 Then He said to them, "With [fervent] desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; 16 "for I say to you, I will no longer eat of it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God." 17 Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, "Take this and divide [it] among yourselves; 18 "for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes." 19 And He took bread, gave thanks and broke [it], and gave [it] to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 20 Likewise He also [took] the cup after supper, saying, "This cup [is] the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. 21 "But behold, the hand of My betrayer [is] with Me on the table. 22 "And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!" 23 Then they began to question among themselves, which of them it was who would do this thing. 24 Now there was also a dispute among them, as to which of them should be considered the greatest. 25 And He said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and those who exercise authority over them are called 'benefactors.' 26 "But not so [among] you; on the contrary, he who is greatest among you, let him be as the younger, and he who governs as he who serves. 27 "For who [is] greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? [Is] it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves. 28 "But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 "And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed [one] upon Me, 30 "that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." 31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift [you] as wheat. 32 "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to [Me], strengthen your brethren." 33 But he said to Him, "Lord, I am ready to go with You, both to prison and to death." 34 Then He said, "I tell you, Peter, the rooster shall not crow this day before you will deny three times that you know Me." 35 And He said to them, "When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?" So they said, "Nothing." 36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take [it], and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 "For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'And He was numbered with the transgressors.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 38 So they said, "Lord, look, here [are] two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." 39 Coming out, He went to the Mount of Olives, as He was accustomed, and His disciples also followed Him. 40 When He came to the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." 41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone's throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." 43 Then an angel appeared to Him from heaven, strengthening Him. 44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45 When He rose up from prayer, and had come to His disciples, He found them sleeping from sorrow. 46 Then He said to them, "Why do you sleep? Rise and pray, lest you enter into temptation." 47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48 But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?" 49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?" 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. 51 But Jesus answered and said, "Permit even this." And He touched his ear and healed him. 52 Then Jesus said to the chief priests, captains of the temple, and the elders who had come to Him, "Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs? 53 "When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness." 54 Having arrested Him, they led [Him] and brought Him into the high priest's house. But Peter followed at a distance. 55 Now when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the courtyard and sat down together, Peter sat among them. 56 And a certain servant girl, seeing him as he sat by the fire, looked intently at him and said, "This man was also with Him." 57 But he denied Him, saying, "Woman, I do not know Him." 58 And after a little while another saw him and said, "You also are of them." But Peter said, "Man, I am not!" 59 Then after about an hour had passed, another confidently affirmed, saying, "Surely this [fellow] also was with Him, for he is a Galilean." 60 But Peter said, "Man, I do not know what you are saying!" Immediately, while he was still speaking, the rooster crowed. 61 And the Lord turned and looked at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how He had said to him, "Before the rooster crows, you will deny Me three times." 62 So Peter went out and wept bitterly. 63 Now the men who held Jesus mocked Him and beat Him. 64 And having blindfolded Him, they struck Him on the face and asked Him, saying, "Prophesy! Who is the one who struck You?" 65 And many other things they blasphemously spoke against Him. 66 As soon as it was day, the elders of the people, both chief priests and scribes, came together and led Him into their council, saying, 67 "If You are the Christ, tell us." But He said to them, "If I tell you, you will by no means believe. 68 "And if I also ask [you], you will by no means answer Me or let [Me] go. 69 "Hereafter the Son of Man will sit on the right hand of the power of God." 70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You [rightly] say that I am." 71 And they said, "What further testimony do we need? For we have heard it ourselves from His own mouth."

You have a good question asking about the Gentile "Old Covenant". Really there was no such thing. However, Gentiles do speak of an Old Covenant and even going back to the Old Covenant which might have two meanings both of which are in reference to something bad or negative so it depends on what the person means. Going back could mean you were once a part of the Old Covenant. Or, it could mean that you begin to observe the things of the Old Covenant that were once practiced by others. The truth of these statements, if there is any, would have to be or needs to be verified if a person wants to be serious about what they are saying or the claims that they are making about whether or not this should be done or not.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

beameup

New member
Shalom.

I do not know how to answer your Last Supper comment or question. I understand that some Bibles have the words Last Supper in them. Do you know or want to learn anything about Pesach, Passover? It is practiced by those of Israel who observe Torah.

Their supper was a fellowship, it was not observed on the Passover, it was observed before the Passover. Jesus would have been in the tomb on Passover, as he was the Lamb.

You have a good question asking about the Gentile "Old Covenant". Really there was no such thing.
Jacob

"the sect of the Pharisees" are the ones that rejected the prophecies of a suffering Messiah. They are with us to this day, as all unbelieving Jews follow "rabbinical Judaism" which is based on the Talmud.

The Gentiles were not under the Law, they didn't have to study the Torah, they had no "Old Covenant". The "Old Covenant" was between Israel and YHWH when they were brought out of Egypt. Christians get confused on this issue. There is no reason to consider that the four Gospels are not part of the Old Testament, as Jesus lived and died under the "Old Covenant".
 

Jacob

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Shalom.
Their supper was a fellowship, it was not observed on the Passover, it was observed before the Passover.
This is incorrect.
Jesus would have been in the tomb on Passover, as he was the Lamb.
You need to look into this more. You statement strikes me as not correct.
"the sect of the Pharisees" are the ones that rejected the prophecies of a suffering Messiah.
I do not know if your statement is true or not.
They are with us to this day, as all unbelieving Jews follow "rabbinical Judaism" which is based on the Talmud.
I don't understand why your second sentence here ties into the first sentence in the way you have written it.
The Gentiles were not under the Law, they didn't have to study the Torah, they had no "Old Covenant".
That is correct. They could convert if they wanted to. For those who lived in the land they needed to or had to abide by the covenant.
The "Old Covenant" was between Israel and YHWH when they were brought out of Egypt.
This is an incorrect statement. YHVH is God.
Christians get confused on this issue.
There is no reason to consider that the four Gospels are not part of the Old Testament, as Jesus lived and died under the "Old Covenant".
Interesting statement, perspective, and or view. I do not know that it is true. I accept Matthew through Revelation but I do not call them the New Testament. The New Covenant is different from the New Testament Scriptures.

Jesus was born under the Law.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

beameup

New member
Originally Posted by beameup View Post
Their supper was a fellowship, it was not observed on the Passover, it was observed before the Passover.
This is incorrect.
Jacob
For someone who boasts that they study the Torah daily, it seems you know little about the PROPHETIC Hebrew Feasts.
How long is the Feast of Unleavened Bread? Did the disciples "break bread" with Jesus in the upper room?
How long is the Passover? When was Jesus crucified?

I won't go any farther as it gets monotonous dealing with someone who "claims" to be a rabbi.
 

Jacob

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For someone who boasts that they study the Torah daily, it seems you know little about the PROPHETIC Hebrew Feasts.
How long is the Feast of Unleavened Bread? Did the disciples "break bread" with Jesus in the upper room?
How long is the Passover? When was Jesus crucified?

I won't go any farther as it gets monotonous dealing with someone who "claims" to be a rabbi.

Shalom.

I do not know what you mean about who or someone who claims to be a Rabbi. However, as a Jew I can answer you.

The Feast of Unleavened Bread is Seven Days. It is from the 15th of the 1st month to the 21st of the 1st month, the 15th and the 21st being Holy Days. The Days inbetween are Intermediate Feast Days.

Passover is the 14th of the 1st month. At least, that is when the Passover Lamb was slain and roasted. It was or would be eaten in the evening, the 15th.

Passover has been said to be Eight Days. You can read about this in the TaNaK.

Outside of Israel it is sometimes true that an extra day is added.

This upcoming year Shabbat immediately follows the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

You have some good questions. I wonder if you have failed to recognize what the Scriptures say, that Jesus celebrated the Passover with them?

For when Jesus was crucified you can read about it in the Gospels. People debate and discuss when it was. Jesus' life is found there, to His death and burial. There is also Acts, the Acts of the Apostles. You can read about Jesus from Matthew to Revelation. You can read about Jesus in the TaNaK. The TaNaK is the Jewish or Hebrew Scriptures. The TaNaK is the Torah the Nevi'im and the Ketuvim (or K'tuvim), the Law the Prophets and the Writings (the Scriptures).

The Complete Tanach with Rashi's Commentary
English translation with Rashi's commentary
English translation of the entire Tanach with Rashi's commentary. Translation edited by esteemed translator and scholar, Rabbi A.J. Rosenberg.


The length of Passover is understood differently by different people from different sources, beginning from Torah or the TaNaK.

Did the disciples "break bread" with Jesus in the upper room?

The words break bread are not found in the Gospels. However, you can find these two words in the following verses among others in the Bible.

Acts 20:7 NKJV - Now on the first [day] of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 10:16 NKJV - The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

Here is some from Matthew about Jesus observing the Passover with his disciples.

Matthew 26:19-26 NKJV - 19 So the disciples did as Jesus had directed them; and they prepared the Passover. 20 When evening had come, He sat down with the twelve. 21 Now as they were eating, He said, "Assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me." 22 And they were exceedingly sorrowful, and each of them began to say to Him, "Lord, is it I?" 23 He answered and said, "He who dipped [his] hand with Me in the dish will betray Me. 24 "The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." 25 Then Judas, who was betraying Him, answered and said, "Rabbi, is it I?" He said to him, "You have said it." 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed and broke [it], and gave [it] to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."

In addition to reading from Matthew you can read about Jesus and Passover in Mark Luke and John.

Shalom.

Jacob
 

Jacob

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Banned
Shalom.

Here is Matthew 28 which explains that Jesus rose from the dead.

Matthew 28:1-20 NKJV - 1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first [day] of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb. 2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow. 4 And the guards shook for fear of him, and became like dead [men]. 5 But the angel answered and said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 "He is not here; for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7 "And go quickly and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead, and indeed He is going before you into Galilee; there you will see Him. Behold, I have told you." 8 So they went out quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to bring His disciples word. 9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go [and] tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me." 11 Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 12 When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13 saying, "Tell them, 'His disciples came at night and stole Him [away] while we slept.' 14 "And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 15 So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day. 16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, [even] to the end of the age." Amen.

Shalom.

Jacob
 
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