Stam died in 1948, O'Hair in 1958. So, they didn't get to jump on the 1948 bandwagon, like the Dispies of the 60's, 70's, and 80's did.
ECT Israel is not the BOC
- Thread starter Tambora
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Stam died in 1948, O'Hair in 1958. So, they didn't get to jump on the 1948 bandwagon, like the Dispies of the 60's, 70's, and 80's did.
I have, and it is a death knell to Dispensationalism.
I have asked you numerous times to explain Gen 48:19 from a MAD point of view, but you keep ignoring me.
If Gen 48:19 has been fulfilled, tell us what great people the Israelite descendants of Manasseh became? Tell us the multitude of Israelite nations that the descendants of Ephraim became?
If your MAD claims Gen 48:19 is a yet future fulfillment, then tell us when the descendants of Manasseh become a great people, and when the descendants of Ephraim become a multitude of Israelite nations?
It all stems from Matt 24:34, and "this generation".
The vast majority of Dispies in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's were all sure that the rapture was going to happen before 1984.
Then when it didn't happen:
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Then when that didn't happen:
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Then when that didn't happen:
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Dispensationalism is a mess!
Not at all.
I take scripture as scripture, and what scripture says.
Not to match some pre-conceived notion, as you do all the time.
And scripture says point blank in Gen 48:19 that is the 1 son, Ephraim, that will have descendants that become a multitude of nations. (Not 10 sons that will have descendants that become a multitude of nations, as you proclaim.)
It hasn't.
Scripture does not say. Just that they will.
Are you willing to just make something up apart from scripture????
Tell us, Tet, where do you say they (the descendants of Manasseh) were located when they became a great people, and at what point in history did the descendants of Manasseh become a great people?
Multitude of Israelite nations???? Why are you adding the word "Israelite" when Gen 48:19 says no such thing.
Gen 48:19 is about 2 individual persons and their own descendants.
And only 1 of those 2 individuals is said to have descendants that become a multitude of nations (not a multitude of Israelite nations).
QUIT ADDING TO SCRIPTURE, Tet. It gets you into trouble every time.
Not MAD, scripture.
Scripture scripture scripture!!!!!
I'm not looking for a "MAD" point of view, or a "Preterist" point of view, but a scripture point of view.
That's pretty funny coming from a Darby Follower. You should be honest with yourself. You read scripture so that it fits your Dispensationalism.
That's why you need to read the whole Bible. In the rest of the Bible, Ephraim is synonymous with the House of Israel (the 10 tribes)
LOL....so what have all these descendants of Ephraim been doing for 3,000 years?
The Bible says the Israelites from the house of Israel (Ephraim) would become as numerous as the sand of the sea, so numerous you wouldn't be able to count them.
So, what has happened the last 3,000 years to all these descendants?
I believe what the scripture says. Why don't you? You claim it didn't happen.
They became a great people from the 8th century BC till the first century when Jesus was born. No one knows who they became, but in the first century, they were a great people.
Seriously Tam?
Ephraim was an Israelite. Therefore, all of Ephraim's descendants were Israelites. Therefore, the multitude of nations were Israelite nations.
Be honest with yourself....I know your Dispy eschatology, there is absolutely know place for a multitude of Israelite nations in MAD's future eschatology.
Yet, you can't explain it. I can.
The descendants of Ephraim and Manasseh, along with the rest of the 10 tribes were seen as Gentiles 700 years later when Christ Jesus made the New Covenant.
That's how all of Israel was saved.
Those who have faith in Christ Jesus, are the Israel of God.
Again, Ephraim was an Israelite.
Not adding. Ephraim was an Israelite, therefore his descendants were Israelites. Therefore the multitude of nations were all Israelites.
You don't like those facts because, once again, it's a death knell to your dispensationalism, and your dispensationalism has nowhere for Gen 48:19 to fit.
"MAD" and "scripture" are mutually exclusive.
Nope, because you're a Darby Follower, you're only looking for a dispensational point of view. However, Gen 48:19 is such a monkey wrench to dispensationalism, you have spent two days denying that Ephraim is synonymous with the house of Israel.
I don't know of any dispensationalist claiming these things. They've all been cults, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, and people who DON'T RIGHTLY DIVIDE. The Bible clearly states that ONLY the Father knows the day and the hour, and that seems to indicate that God hasn't decided when He will send Jesus for the second time.
We "dispies" know that no man can predict when Jesus will return. So please, stop with the straw man arguments.
Dispies can't claim it now, because it's been way past 40 years since 1948.
So, you Neo-Dispies had to come up with Plan B.
If you study the OT, you would know that "no one knows the day and hour" is a reference to the Feast of Trumpets.
All of the other feasts were on a full moon. Only the Feast of Trumpets was on a new moon.
The Sanhedrin used to send two witnesses for the new moon. No one knew what day or hour it would come. Even today, with all of modern technology, no one knows. Muslims, with all of modern technology, don't know when Ramadan begins, because it also begins on a new moon, and to this day, no one knows the day or hour of the new moon.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the four spring feasts. The three fall feasts were fulfilled in 70Ad.
Wrong.
God waited one generation. Just like He did with the Exodus generation.
Jesus made it clear that some would not taste death before He returned.
And, Jesus made it clear that all of the things in Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13 would take place before that generation (40 years) had passed away:
(Matt 24:34) Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
LOL...you Dispies have been predicting the rapture every time there is a hiccup in the Middle East.
Not to mention that every president of the United States and Russia has been called the antichrist.
Dispensationalism is a mess!
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Do you consider the TOL member who goes by the user name "musterion" as a consistent Mid-Acts Dispensationalist?
If so, he just made a post to a rapture website that contains the following:
"FRIDAY’S Black Moon could bring with it worldwide destruction and the second coming of Jesus Christ, Christians and conspiracy theorists have claimed."
Here is the post he made, to the rapture site:
Another article from musterion's site:
"China has inserted themselves into the Middle East Conflict effectively bringing the last world power into the battle over the oil fields.
They have been strategically placing themselves in positions in the pacific too that have heightened world tensions.
This alliance with Russia is nothing short of prophetic."
Do you see that Danoh? musterion's site claims that China inserting itself into the Middle East is prophetic.
Preterist nonsense.
What have all these descendants of Ephraim been doing for 3,000 years?
Remember, they were to become so numerous, they couldn't even be counted.
Where are they Tam?
whitestone
Well-known member
I do not want you to think I will not answer your question but race in your thread is imputed in about page 8 and 9. You are very well correct to point out the differences between Manasseh and Ephraim.
Consider this,why were you ask "If" it said (son) in the first several pages of your thread,Is it sons or son? It"s as well a controversial subject as the contention of 12 in or out but based on how the question is answered is a valuable bit of information and needed to be ask to proceed.
Are you related to Danoh?
whitestone
Well-known member
Oh, now your going to pull out your holding card and force feed us Josephus and how he set's this all in place? that's your general pattern but in this case you’ve been kind of quiet on the Josephus stuff Agreed?
I don't have my settings set the same as you, because this post (the one I'm posting right now) is on page 6 for me.
So I don't know which posts you are referring to or what the context was.
Thanks.
"Son" and "sons" has been mentioned several times in this thread, so I'm not sure what you are asking here.
Could you maybe spell it out a little more?
Living and dying, Tet.
What do you think they should have been doing?
whitestone
Well-known member
Post #123 look real close how he words it and think "salvation by?"
Follow your motherly instincts, is there a difference between children and birthright...google controversy Hoseah 11:1 Matthew ect.ect.
You list them, Tet.
Go ahead.
Don't leave any out, and don't add any in there that shouldn't be.
Show us in scripture where you found this list of the names of the nations the descendants of Ephraim became (not 'mixed' with, but 'became').
You keep asking this same fool question when you cannot answer it yourself.
It looks to me like Tet is a universalist in the way he says things ------ Israel (northern kingdom) became the pagan Gentiles of the world and Judah (southern kingdom) stayed intact until both sticks were joined together into one.
So all the pagan Gentile nations of the world are untied with Judah (the only non-Gentile nation) as GOD's kingdom people.
That's everyone.
whitestone
Well-known member
His eschatology is from Origen of Alexandria but he evades it in person