Is Wormwood here as prescribed in the Good Book,

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

There is a difference between being fulfilled physically, spiritually, and biblically. A biblical fulfillment can have many aspects and include both physical and spiritual. But I am not talking about the fulfillment.
I am not saying it was fulfilled spiritually. It wasn't. It was fulfilled physically and had many spiritual aftershocks. It is the prophecy itself that contains idiomatic expressions that need to be understood before we know what it could be pointing to.

For example:
The use of "sun, moon and stars" by the prophets tells us what to expect when Jesus uses the same terminology. When the prophets used this expression where these heavenly bodies were said to radically change their appearance, colour or position, they were talking about a judgement on particular nations which were bright lights in the world. see the prophecy against Egypt Ezek 32:7-8KJV , the prophecy against Idumea Is 34:4-5KJV, the prophecy against Babylon Is 13:9-10KJV

It was fulfilled physically in 70 AD. God put Israel's lights out and made it desolate with the Roman army. The sun (Jacob), the moon (Rachel?) and the stars (Jacob's sons - 12 tribes) as representatives of the nation of Israel (see Joseph's dream) came to an end and no longer shone as God's light in the world. Jesus was now that light. "I am the light of the world." John 8:12KJV

Knowing the fulfillment of prophecy depends completely on understanding the prophecy to begin with. I maintain that when we stay within the confines of God's revelation, and His words, we are much closer to truth than when we lean on our own understanding.

That is a good answer but it does not negate the fact that prophesy is often double or triple in mean and understanding. For the example you give, for example, there is a problem, and that is that the verses you site also point to the the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord when Jesus returns. This is shown most clearly in Revelation which refers to this day:

Revelation 6:12-13
12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

And see how Jesus states that the darkening of the sun, moon and stars are also related to the day of His return:

Matthew 24
29“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

The other big problem with spiritualising or as you also say, taking it Biblically is that many of those verses cannot be taken in any other way then physically. That is why I wanted you to high light the verses which you believe were not fulfilled physically but were fulfilled spiritually (or Biblically). Intead you chose to side step this exercise. I wonder why.

Also, do you believe Jesus is going to return?

 

[George Affleck]

That is a good answer but it does not negate the fact that prophesy is often double or triple in mean and understanding. For the example you give, for example, there is a problem, and that is that the verses you site also point to the the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord when Jesus returns. This is shown most clearly in Revelation which refers to this day:

Revelation 6:12-13
12I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.

You are assuming that the above in Revelation relates to the day when Jesus will return. I do not assume that, regardless of how "obvious" others say it is. And, it does not state that. In fact, John warns us at the beginning of Revelation that his book is full of signs and things that must shortly come to pass. God has supplied a clear definition for this apocalyptic figure of speech from the many times 'sun, moon, and stars' are mentioned in the OT. It refers to the putting out of the lights of a nation; in this case, the Jewish nation. I require biblical authority to see it any other way and there is none.

And see how Jesus states that the darkening of the sun, moon and stars are also related to the day of His return:

Matthew 24
29“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

The distress of those days is the tribulation, anguish, sorrow, and travail of the Jewish people in not being saved from destruction by the Roman army. The aftermath of this is that the bright lights of Judaism as representing God on earth will be blotted out so as not to shine ever again. It was the sign that the Son of Man had not only reached heaven, but was ruling from there. The reason this was the greatest of all tribulations the world will ever see, apart from the horrific loss of life and appalling conditions under which it happened, is that God had chosen a people and was now bringing judgement upon them because they were filling up the iniquity of their fathers. Matt 23:35-36KJV

The other big problem with spiritualising or as you also say, taking it Biblically is that many of those verses cannot be taken in any other way then physically.

I do interpret them physically. The destruction of Jerusalem is a documented, physical, historical fact. The question is not physical vs. spiritual; the question is how and when does the physical fulfillment apply. His disciples asked for a sign. He told them the sign would appear to them that He was, in fact, in heaven as He said, and coming on the clouds of heaven in judgement upon all those who opposed Him with power and great glory.
He told them not to expect Him to be in the secret places. He would go to heaven and orchestrate world events, within that same generation, that would completely dismantle the old Jewish economy and the physical symbols. The city, the temple, the sacrifices, would all be gone and the Kingdom of God would rule from then on. He raised up the temple of His body in 3 days as He said He would and the temple that stood in Jerusalem, He destroyed from heaven. He now reigns from there. All who come to the Father must come through His body and His blood and not the sacrifice of animals. The destruction of the temple was that great and notable day of the Lord when He signaled to the world that He was in charge of all things.

That is why I wanted you to high light the verses which you believe were not fulfilled physically but were fulfilled spiritually (or Biblically). Intead you chose to side step this exercise. I wonder why.

You have well said, in other posts, that knowledge is built "line upon line". These things are too big to properly answer unless that approach is taken as posts would be far too lengthy. As a general rule, my take on Mathew 24 is that everything up to verse 34 is speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem and everything after concerns His second, personal coming.

Also, do you believe Jesus is going to return?

Of course. There will be a personal, visible return of our Lord at the end of all ages as the Bible states.

 

[Right Divider]

But you're not actually proving what you are saying. You have no scripture or scriptural analysis to disprove my interpretation. You can't even provide an interpretation of you own. All you you've done make a unfounded claim. I don't think you understand that though.

I don't have to prove anything. You made a claim without evidence. Either give EVIDENCE or retract your false claim.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I don't have to prove anything. You made a claim without evidence. Either give EVIDENCE or retract your false claim.

You obviously do not have the intelligence to understand. God bless you.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You are assuming that the above in Revelation relates to the day when Jesus will return. I do not assume that, regardless of how "obvious" others say it is. And, it does not state that. In fact, John warns us at the beginning of Revelation that his book is full of signs and things that must shortly come to pass. God has supplied a clear definition for this apocalyptic figure of speech from the many times 'sun, moon, and stars' are mentioned in the OT. It refers to the putting out of the lights of a nation; in this case, the Jewish nation. I require biblical authority to see it any other way and there is none.

The Sun, moon (and stars) function is to serve as signs but you are saying that they are only used as one sign (singular) to represent Israel. That's not what they were created for, as many times in the Bible they are referred to as being interpreted as a sign of an event on earth for both Israel and the other nations.

Genesis 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

The distress of those days is the tribulation, anguish, sorrow, and travail of the Jewish people in not being saved from destruction by the Roman army. The aftermath of this is that the bright lights of Judaism as representing God on earth will be blotted out so as not to shine ever again. It was the sign that the Son of Man had not only reached heaven, but was ruling from there. The reason this was the greatest of all tribulations the world will ever see, apart from the horrific loss of life and appalling conditions under which it happened, is that God had chosen a people and was now bringing judgement upon them because they were filling up the iniquity of their fathers. Matt 23:35-36KJV

Well that's just not true. God did not blot out the Jewish race forever as they are still here and are in fact fast on their way to becoming the most powerful nation on earth just as the Bible prophesy's say they would, (I can't believe you said that). God allowed a remnant to survive and miraculously are the only nation in human history to survive without a home land for any length of time, and for 1878 years too!! Which is almost beyond belief but God can do anything.

I do interpret them physically. The destruction of Jerusalem is a documented, physical, historical fact. The question is not physical vs. spiritual; the question is how and when does the physical fulfillment apply. His disciples asked for a sign. He told them the sign would appear to them that He was, in fact, in heaven as He said, and coming on the clouds of heaven in judgement upon all those who opposed Him with power and great glory.

Jesus has not yet come on the clouds in great glory. This will be the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord.

He told them not to expect Him to be in the secret places. He would go to heaven and orchestrate world events, within that same generation, that would completely dismantle the old Jewish economy and the physical symbols. The city, the temple, the sacrifices, would all be gone and the Kingdom of God would rule from then on. He raised up the temple of His body in 3 days as He said He would and the temple that stood in Jerusalem, He destroyed from heaven. He now reigns from there. All who come to the Father must come through His body and His blood and not the sacrifice of animals. The destruction of the temple was that great and notable day of the Lord when He signaled to the world that He was in charge of all things.

REALLY! So what happened to Jesus if you think he came back in 70AD? There's no mention of this world shattering event in historical records. When it does happen every eye will see Him. Not to mention Revelation states that most people will die before He does return.

You have well said, in other posts, that knowledge is built "line upon line". These things are too big to properly answer unless that approach is taken as posts would be far too lengthy. As a general rule, my take on Mathew 24 is that everything up to verse 34 is speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem and everything after concerns His second, personal coming.

As I said; when did this happen in history?:

Matthew 24
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Of course. There will be a personal, visible return of our Lord at the end of all ages as the Bible states.

Do you believe Jesus will reign on this earth for 1000 years before the end of all the ages?

 

[Right Divider]

You obviously do not have the intelligence to understand. God bless you.

I understand that you made a false claim that you cannot support. God bless you.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I understand that you made a false claim that you cannot support. God bless you.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you.

 

[Right Divider]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Thank you.

People that tell untruths, like you, always use some childish diversionary tactic in a vain attempt to deflect the attention away from their mistakes for which they are unwilling to take responsibility.

 

[George Affleck]

The Sun, moon (and stars) function is to serve as signs but you are saying that they are only used as one sign (singular) to represent Israel.

No, that's not what I said at all. What I said was that, when prophets foretold the destruction of great nations, they often did so with figurative language. They often used imagery about the sun, moon and stars. They compared successful and powerful nations to the brightness of celestial bodies on the world stage. And this imagery became embedded in the scriptures as acceptable and recognizable. Jesus used this same imagery because He wanted only those who knew the scriptures to understand Him. We use the same imagery sometimes.

I am not saying they are only used as one sign. You are putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that, because God already has used the sun, moon and stars imagery to refer to Israel, in Joseph's dream, and because He often uses the imagery of the celestial bodies being darkened and falling from the sky when nations are judged, we have a precedent for interpretation, set by God, that should be seriously considered. If the sun and moon are to be physically darkened and the stars physically fall from heaven during the tribulation, our universe physically collapses. This presents a problem for the survivors.

That's not what they were created for, as many times in the Bible they are referred to as being interpreted as a sign of an event on earth for both Israel and the other nations.

This is exactly what I said! I can't imagine why you have a problem with it when Jesus uses this imagery to describe the destruction of Jerusalem.

Well that's just not true. God did not blot out the Jewish race forever as they are still here and are in fact fast on their way to becoming the most powerful nation on earth just as the Bible prophesy's say they would, (I can't believe you said that)

I did not say God blotted out the Jewish race forever. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. What He did do was to put their lights out as religious leaders. The Lord destroyed the temple, the city, stopped the daily sacrifices, nullified the theocratic system, and established the Kingdom of God in its place. It is a spiritual kingdom, accessed by the power of the Holy Spirit, and ruled over by King Jesus. Any one who has the keys of hell and death, who stands between sinners and heaven, and who has overcome the world is fully reigning. 1Pet 3:22KJV

God allowed a remnant to survive and miraculously are the only nation in human history to survive without a home land for any length of time, and for 1878 years too!! Which is almost beyond belief but God can do anything.

Let's leave alone, for a moment, the fact that many historians and even Jews do not believe they are descended from Abraham. But you are suggesting that a nation can exist without being a nation. The Jewish nation did not exist from 70AD onward. They were scattered to the four winds; nomads in foreign lands, many of whom became Christians. You can call them a people group if you wish, but they were no longer a nation. Japan has been a world nation since the time of Daniel and a people group much longer. A new country came on the scene in 1948 calling themselves Israel and is just another country in the world. God did not sanction it in the same way He chose Israel as a theocratic nation and He never will. that which is perfect has come.

Jesus has not yet come on the clouds in great glory. This will be the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord.

REALLY! So what happened to Jesus if you think he came back in 70AD? There's no mention of this world shattering event in historical records. When it does happen every eye will see Him. Not to mention Revelation states that most people will die before He does return.

I did not say He came back in AD70. I said He orchestrated the destruction of the old covenant as a sign to His people that He was in heaven and ruling as King and had instituted a new covenant in His blood.

As I said; when did this happen in history?:

Matthew 24
30“Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The sign that Jesus was in heaven was the destruction of the temple. It was not a sign in the heavens. It was the "Son of Man in heaven" giving his sign to His people.
Whether this is the 12 tribes or all the people groups of the earth doesn't matter. The gospel had been preached for a witness to all nations at Pentecost. Those who doubted that Jesus could destroy Jeruslaem from heaven now had reason to believe and mourned their foolishness. And his messengers were sent with the call of taking the Gospel to the ends of the earth as they continue to do to this day.

Do you believe Jesus will reign on this earth for 1000 years before the end of all the ages?

Jesus has been in charge of the whole universe since He created it. But in the sense of reigning on David's throne, He is now reigning and has reigned since He rose from the dead and conquered death. His kingdom is not of this world. The Father has no use for the blood of bulls and goats, for a city, or for a physical temple. Jesus is that temple. Matt 26:61KJV, John 2:21KJV
The 1000 years is figurative of the present Church age.


(I apologize if there are any problems with this post. The formatting is completely messed up for me, as it is for some others, and has not resolved. I can't see a preview and it is very difficult to even see what I am writing. I can't contact anyone at TOL to resolve the problem and I can't use the chat forum)

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

People that tell untruths, like you, always use some childish diversionary tactic in a vain attempt to deflect the attention away from their mistakes for which they are unwilling to take responsibility.

You can't prove Apophis won't hit in 2029 but I have scripture on my side. You have nothing but aspersions.

 

[Tnkrbl123!]

LOL When I read the title to this post I thought you were talking about Wormwood as in the hallucinogenic ingredient in Absinthe!!! You know, the alcoholic drink that lead to Van Gogh to cut his ear off! Lol
Well this thread is about as much of a wild fantasy ride as that

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

No, that's not what I said at all. What I said was that, when prophets foretold the destruction of great nations, they often did so with figurative language. They often used imagery about the sun, moon and stars. They compared successful and powerful nations to the brightness of celestial bodies on the world stage. And this imagery became embedded in the scriptures as acceptable and recognizable. Jesus used this same imagery because He wanted only those who knew the scriptures to understand Him. We use the same imagery sometimes.

I don't disagree with any of that.

I am not saying they are only used as one sign. You are putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that, because God already has used the sun, moon and stars imagery to refer to Israel, in Joseph's dream, and because He often uses the imagery of the celestial bodies being darkened and falling from the sky when nations are judged, we have a precedent for interpretation, set by God, that should be seriously considered. If the sun and moon are to be physically darkened and the stars physically fall from heaven during the tribulation, our universe physically collapses. This presents a problem for the survivors.

I actually said your answer was a good answer (regarding the the imagery of the language used). What I was trying to point out is that you are ignoring the literal interpretation, the reason for this however is actually because you do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign of Christ's on this Earth when Jesus returns (as you stated at the end of your reply). This is the crux of the problem and was what I suspected it might be, which is why I asked you about that. I can empathise with your disbelief though as I too did not believe it for many years. However, God revealed this truth to me and therefore know that it is only through such revelation that you would be able to believe it too. All I can say to you is that it is true and I hope God will reveal it to you too ASAP.

This is exactly what I said! I can't imagine why you have a problem with it when Jesus uses this imagery to describe the destruction of Jerusalem.

There is a misunderstanding here. I mean that the physical bodies of the sun, moon and stars are USED as signs, such as when Jesus was born for example but your interpretation seems to be solely one of imagery, so that they are just linguistic representation of Israel and the nations or angels etc.

I did not say God blotted out the Jewish race forever. Again, you are putting words in my mouth. What He did do was to put their lights out as religious leaders. The Lord destroyed the temple, the city, stopped the daily sacrifices, nullified the theocratic system, and established the Kingdom of God in its place. It is a spiritual kingdom, accessed by the power of the Holy Spirit, and ruled over by King Jesus. Any one who has the keys of hell and death, who stands between sinners and heaven, and who has overcome the world is fully reigning. 1Pet 3:22KJV

Yes you did say that in post #62: "The aftermath of this is that the bright lights of Judaism as representing God on earth will be blotted out so as not to shine ever again."

Judaism is still here and they are now back as a nation again. I agree that God replaced this with Christianity but the scriptures must be fulfilled that they would come back again.

Let's leave alone, for a moment, the fact that many historians and even Jews do not believe they are descended from Abraham. But you are suggesting that a nation can exist without being a nation. The Jewish nation did not exist from 70AD onward. They were scattered to the four winds; nomads in foreign lands, many of whom became Christians. You can call them a people group if you wish, but they were no longer a nation. Japan has been a world nation since the time of Daniel and a people group much longer. A new country came on the scene in 1948 calling themselves Israel and is just another country in the world. God did not sanction it in the same way He chose Israel as a theocratic nation and He never will. that which is perfect has come.

Again I agree with all that, what I meant by the use of the word 'nation' is the 'idea' that the Jewish people group are back to being a nation in their original homeland. This is a fact. But I agree that God has not sanctioned it, it is merely a group of people who believe they are of Jewish decent, even though they are not, who have benefited from using the 10 commandments to forge a new nation (called Israel) which has now fulfilled prophesy.

I did not say He came back in AD70. I said He orchestrated the destruction of the old covenant as a sign to His people that He was in heaven and ruling as King and had instituted a new covenant in His blood.

The sign that Jesus was in heaven was the destruction of the temple. It was not a sign in the heavens. It was the "Son of Man in heaven" giving his sign to His people.
Whether this is the 12 tribes or all the people groups of the earth doesn't matter. The gospel had been preached for a witness to all nations at Pentecost. Those who doubted that Jesus could destroy Jeruslaem from heaven now had reason to believe and mourned their foolishness. And his messengers were sent with the call of taking the Gospel to the ends of the earth as they continue to do to this day.

Again you are over spiritualising in you interpretations of Matthew 24 but as said this is because you do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign. Believe me when I tell you the Earth is just less than 6000 years old and Jesus died on the 4000th year. There were 4000 years of Old Testament and there will be 2000 years of New Testament, making up 6000 years of man's work. Jesus will rule on Earth for 1000 years which is the Sabbath day of rest. 'A thousand years is as a day and a day as a thousand years.' - The Biblical week.

Jesus has been in charge of the whole universe since He created it. But in the sense of reigning on David's throne, He is now reigning and has reigned since He rose from the dead and conquered death. His kingdom is not of this world. The Father has no use for the blood of bulls and goats, for a city, or for a physical temple. Jesus is that temple. Matt 26:61KJV, John 2:21KJV

I agree

The 1000 years is figurative of the present Church age.

I pray you see it as a coming literal age ASAP.

(I apologize if there are any problems with this post. The formatting is completely messed up for me, as it is for some others, and has not resolved. I can't see a preview and it is very difficult to even see what I am writing. I can't contact anyone at TOL to resolve the problem and I can't use the chat forum)

I have not noticed any problems myself thankfully. Good talking with you.

 

[daqq]

Jesus will rule on Earth for 1000 years which is the Sabbath day of rest. 'A thousand years is as a day and a day as a thousand years.' - The Biblical week.

I pray you see it as a coming literal age ASAP.

The 1000 years is figurative of the present Church age.

The LORD made two appearances to Solomon, and thus, "the Preacher" knew what it was to live a thousand years twice told, (two times, Ecc 6:6), but even so, the LORD was angry with Solomon, for even after He had made two appearances to him, Solomon allowed his strange wives and concubines to turn his heart away from the LORD. However the saying which Watchman quotes remains true, even established by these things, for it can be understood two different ways depending on the mindset of the reader or hearer: for one day beside the LORD may as well be a thousand years because you have entered into the new age of the ages, but it appears that most simply do not wish to see it that way, (until they meet the LORD, and so shall they ever be with Him, according to Paul, lol, some know it as Olam Haba, (Paul no doubt)).

 

[Right Divider]

You can't prove Apophis won't hit in 2029 but I have scripture on my side. You have nothing but aspersions.

I don't have to prove anything.

I did NOT make false claims about what will happen and who will cause it .... like you did.

Prove your false claims or retract them. It's really simple.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I don't have to prove anything.

I did NOT make false claims about what will happen and who will cause it .... like you did.

Prove your false claims or retract them. It's really simple.

I did but you did not understand it.

 

[Right Divider]

On Friday 13th of April 2029 the Asteroid Apophis will hit the Earth. Although it is currently predicted to miss Earth by about 18,000 miles, Satan will cause it to hit us. This will produce a ejection cloud that will circle the Earth and from which demonic locusts will descend as described in the book Revelation. These locusts will attack everyone for five months and then Jesus will return on the 24th September 2029. (imo):

I did but you did not understand it.

You have NO WAY of knowing what you claim there and have provided NO SUPPORT whatsoever from scripture or otherwise.

 

[Bee1]

LOL When I read the title to this post I thought you were talking about Wormwood as in the hallucinogenic ingredient in Absinthe!!! You know, the alcoholic drink that lead to Van Gogh to cut his ear off! Lol
Well this thread is about as much of a wild fantasy ride as that

Do you think that there is nothing to this hype concerning and extinction event which has happened before .

Sent from my SM-J727P using Tapatalk

 

[George Affleck]

Again you are over spiritualising in you interpretations of Matthew 24 but as said this is because you do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign. Believe me when I tell you the Earth is just less than 6000 years old and Jesus died on the 4000th year. There were 4000 years of Old Testament and there will be 2000 years of New Testament, making up 6000 years of man's work. Jesus will rule on Earth for 1000 years which is the Sabbath day of rest. 'A thousand years is as a day and a day as a thousand years.' - The Biblical week. I agreeI pray you see it as a coming literal age ASAP.

Thanks for clearing some of that up.

I agree that the best argument for the millennial reign may be the day of rest theory. It has a beauty in simplicity that other explanations do not have. I also do not discount the fact that even my best attempts at understanding can lead me in the wrong direction.

The 2Pet 3:8KJV verse can be taken two ways. It can be seen as identifying a millennium as a day, as in the creation, or it can be interpreted as simply showing that God is not restricted by time. I have always favoured the latter but I can see that it is reasonable for others to disagree.

The reasons I reject the literal 1000 year theory are many but here are some.

The teaching mostly comes from Rev. 20, in a book stated to be written in symbols and where numbers are obviously symbolic. I think it is a mistake to take a symbolic number literally without good reason.
The stated purpose of the book is "to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand". This is a limiter for the whole book and should not be forgotten. By this I mean that the thousand years should have begun "shortly".
Ps 90:4KJV tells us that a thousand years is not intended to be limited to a specific 24 hour day because it adds " watch in the night" which is not a day. The reasonable meaning of this is of comparing a long period of time with a short one, not a literal time with another literal time.
Peter is quoting a portion of this verse from the Psalms to show that God is not restricted to a human timeline.
Deut 7:9 uses the round number of a thousand generations to explain the length of God's mercy. I cannot imagine that we would think that God's mercy must not last less or more than that literal amount of time. Jesus uses the number of 70x7 as the number of times we are to forgive. Should we see this as literal?

Now if the New Testament had any reference where the thousand years and "morning and evening" were linked, I would say your case would be stronger. But, in fact, Jesus is seen as the bright and "morning" star, rising in the hearts of all believers as the promise of their sabbath rest in a spiritual sense. 2Pet 1:19KJV, Luke 1:78KJV, Heb 4:9KJV

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

Thanks for clearing some of that up.

I agree that the best argument for the millennial reign may be the day of rest theory. It has a beauty in simplicity that other explanations do not have. I also do not discount the fact that even my best attempts at understanding can lead me in the wrong direction.

The 2Pet 3:8KJV verse can be taken two ways. It can be seen as identifying a millennium as a day, as in the creation, or it can be interpreted as simply showing that God is not restricted by time. I have always favoured the latter but I can see that it is reasonable for others to disagree.

The reasons I reject the literal 1000 year theory are many but here are some.

The teaching mostly comes from Rev. 20, in a book stated to be written in symbols and where numbers are obviously symbolic. I think it is a mistake to take a symbolic number literally without good reason.
The stated purpose of the book is "to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass" and "the time is at hand". This is a limiter for the whole book and should not be forgotten. By this I mean that the thousand years should have begun "shortly".
Ps 90:4KJV tells us that a thousand years is not intended to be limited to a specific 24 hour day because it adds " watch in the night" which is not a day. The reasonable meaning of this is of comparing a long period of time with a short one, not a literal time with another literal time.
Peter is quoting a portion of this verse from the Psalms to show that God is not restricted to a human timeline.
Deut 7:9 uses the round number of a thousand generations to explain the length of God's mercy. I cannot imagine that we would think that God's mercy must not last less or more than that literal amount of time. Jesus uses the number of 70x7 as the number of times we are to forgive. Should we see this as literal?

Now if the New Testament had any reference where the thousand years and "morning and evening" were linked, I would say your case would be stronger. But, in fact, Jesus is seen as the bright and "morning" star, rising in the hearts of all believers as the promise of their sabbath rest in a spiritual sense. 2Pet 1:19KJV, Luke 1:78KJV, Heb 4:9KJV

I am glad that you have/are considering the 1000 year reign as being literal and yet to come. The Bible confirms the first 4000 years in detail, giving and accurate chronological timeline. Many have tried to compile this chronology with varying degrees of accuracy. In my research I think this may be the most accurate I have found: https://guidetothebible.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/guidechronologylatest2.pdf it may not be of course but notice that the 6000th year coincides with Israel being a nation for one generation of 80 years in 2029.

As Christians we believe Jesus will return and I believe this timing is accurate and that when He returns He will rule for the Sabbath millennium. This is why Revelations say there are two Resurrection; One when Jesus returns and one at the end of the 1000 years when God the Father returns.

Revelation 20
They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

I believe these priests of God are the 144,000 and the second resurrection is for the Great Multitude and the large temple described in Ezekiel will be built for this 1000 year reign.

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

You have NO WAY of knowing what you claim there and have provided NO SUPPORT whatsoever from scripture or otherwise.

I do and I did and you didn't understand.