ECT Is There a Queen in the Kingdom of Heaven?

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Bard_the_Bowman

New member
DavidK said:
Wait, isn't a queen made a queen by virtue of being married to a king, not giving birth to one?

Wouldn't that make the bride of Christ, if anything, the queen of heaven?
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Hey DavidK,

What you state above is true especially in the west....but not for many ancient middle eastern dynasties including the Davidic Dynasty.

In the Davidic Dynasty the king had many wives. Solomon, for example, had like 700 wives and 300 concubines (mostly for political purposes probably).

David had many as well.

So who is the Queen if the King has all of those wives?

It was the King's mother because the King only has one mother.

We see evidence of this in 1 Kings 2:19 where Solomon bows to his mother and has a throne brought to her and has her sit at his right hand.

We also see evidence of this reading through the O.T. after the Northern Tribes broke from the Southern Tribes. The Southern Tribe kept the Davidic lineage. The Kingdom of David. So as we read about the Southern Tribes, when the King is mentioned, it is often stated..."and his mother was.....so and so.....". That is done because the mother of the King was the Queen.

Here are some passages that show this: 2 Kings 14:2,2 Kings 15:2, 2 Kings 15:33,2 Kings 18:2,2 Kings 21:1,...there are many more.

To sum up:

Jesus is the final King in the line of David.
In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen is the King's mother.
So Mary is the Queen.

Peace.
 
DavidK

DavidK

New member
Bard_the_Bowman said:
Hey DavidK,

What you state above is true especially in the west....but not for many ancient middle eastern dynasties including the Davidic Dynasty.

In the Davidic Dynasty the king had many wives. Solomon, for example, had like 700 wives and 300 concubines (mostly for political purposes probably).

David had many as well.

So who is the Queen if the King has all of those wives?

It was the King's mother because the King only has one mother.

We see evidence of this in 1 Kings 2:19 where Solomon bows to his mother and has a throne brought to her and has her sit at his right hand.

We also see evidence of this reading through the O.T. after the Northern Tribes broke from the Southern Tribes. The Southern Tribe kept the Davidic lineage. The Kingdom of David. So as we read about the Southern Tribes, when the King is mentioned, it is often stated..."and his mother was.....so and so.....". That is done because the mother of the King was the Queen.

Here are some passages that show this: 2 Kings 14:2,2 Kings 15:2, 2 Kings 15:33,2 Kings 18:2,2 Kings 21:1,...there are many more.

To sum up:

Jesus is the final King in the line of David.
In the Davidic Kingdom, the Queen is the King's mother.
So Mary is the Queen.

Peace.
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Thanks.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
CatholicCrusader said:
Is There a Queen in the Kingdom of Heaven?
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Semiramis was initially included in the pagan Babylonian trinity as the holy spirit or seed of the divine son in his mother's womb. With time, however, the father Nimrod was practically overlooked and worshiped only as the god-incarnate son in his mother's arms. In other words, the father became invisible and was no longer worshiped, whereas, the mother with the god-incarnate son in her arms became the grand object of worship. Numerous Babylonian monuments show the goddess-mother Semiramis with her son in her arms. This worship of mother and child spread throughout the known world, and given different names in the various languages of the world. (http://aletheia.consultronix.com/7.html)​
 
dodge

dodge

New member
CatholicCrusader said:
Hail_Holy_Queen.jpg
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Sadly, Jesus is lowered so His mother can receive the praise and faith rightfully due to God and only God.

Why would anyone that trusts God pray to any but God. The answer is because those that place their faith in other than God do not know God.
 
T

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Jerry Shugart said:
According to Rome Mary is the Queen of Heaven!
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I had a feeling there might be a thread about this so I did a search and here you go.

CatholicCrusader said:

Is There a Queen in the Kingdom of Heaven? PART ONE
By Tim Staples - source link

(quoted with permission)

Pope Pius XII effectively summarized the core reasons Christians ought to honor Mary with the title of Queen of Heaven and Earth:
According to ancient tradition and the sacred liturgy the main principle on which the royal dignity of Mary rests is without doubt her divine motherhood. In holy writ, concerning the son whom Mary will conceive, we read this sentence: “He shall be called the son of the most high, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father, and he shall reign in the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end,” and in addition Mary is called “Mother of the Lord,” from this it is easily concluded that she is a queen, since she bore a son who, at the very moment of his conception, because of the hypostatic union of the human nature with the Word, was also as man, king and lord of all things. So with complete justice St. John Damascene could write: “When she became mother of the creator, she truly became queen of every creature.” Likewise, it can be said that the heavenly voice of the Archangel Gabriel was the first to proclaim Mary’s royal office (Ad Caeli Reginam, 34).​


In a future blog post, I will give more positive reasons for faith in Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth, but many Protestants I speak to cannot get past one biblical text from the Old Testament that casts a shadow over this topic like none other. In Roman Catholics and Evangelicals—Agreements and Differences, Norman Geisler and Ralph MacKenzie present that text along with their commentary that represents the misguided faith of millions. And that text is Jeremiah 7:18:
Do you not see what they are doing in the streets of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger.​


Geisler and MacKenzie comment:
To call Mary “Queen of Heaven,” knowing that this very phrase comes from an old pagan idolatrous cult condemned in the Bible (cf. Jer. 7:18), only invites the charge of Mariolatry. And Mariolatry is idolatry (p. 322).​


I can certainly sympathize with their thinking here. I once thought the same. But the truth is: this text has absolutely nothing to do with the Blessed Mother as Queen of Heaven for at least three reasons:
  1. Jeremiah here condemns the adoration of the Mesopotamian goddess Astarte (see Raymond Brown, S.S., Joseph Fitzmeyer, S.J., Roland E. Murphy, editors, The Jerome Biblical Commentary, Prentice-Hall, Inc., Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey, 1968, p. 310). She is in no way related to Mary. In fact, “she” did not and does not exist in reality. Mary, on the other hand, was a real historical person who was—and is—a queen by virtue of the fact that her son was—and is—the king.
  2. Jeremiah condemned offering sacrifice to “the queen of heaven.” In Scripture, we have many examples of the proper way we should honor great members of the kingdom of God. We give “double honor” to “elders who rule well” in the Church (1 Tim. 5:17). St. Paul tells us we should “esteem very highly” those who are “over [us] in the Lord” (1 Thess. 5:12-13). We sing praises to great members of the family of God who have gone before us (Psalm 45:17). We bow down to them with reverence (1 Kings 2:19). We carry out the work of the Lord in their names (Matt. 10:40-42, DRV), and more. But there is one thing we ought never to do: offer sacrifice to them. Offering sacrifice is tantamount to the adoration that is due God alone. And this is precisely what Jeremiah was condemning. The Catholic Church does not teach—and has never taught—that we should adore Mary (see CCC 2110-2114; Lumen Gentium 66-67; CCC 971). Catholics offer sacrifice exclusively to God.
  3. To the Evangelical and Fundamentalist, the mere fact that worshipping someone called “queen of heaven” is condemned in Jeremiah 7 eliminates the possibility of Mary being the true Queen of Heaven and Earth. This simply does not follow. The existence of a counterfeit queen does not mean there can’t be an authentic one. This reasoning followed to its logical end would lead to abandoning the entire Christian Faith! We could not have a Bible because Hinduism, Islam, and many other false religions have “holy books.” We could not call Jesus Son of God because Zeus and Hera had Apollo, Isis and Osiris had Horus, etc. The fact that there was a false “queen of heaven” worshipped in ancient Mesopotamia does not negate the reality of the true queen who is honored as such in the kingdom of God.
If you enjoyed this and want to know more, click here.
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
The Scriptures will be searched in vain for any evidence that Mary is a Queen in heaven. But those who follow Rome don't need evidence from the Scriptures because they don't care what the Scriptures say.
 
T

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Bright Raven said:
There is no such thing as the Queen of heaven. If there is prove it with Scripture.
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Jerry Shugart said:
The Scriptures will be searched in vain for any evidence that Mary is a Queen in heaven
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lol. The scriptures have been provided, along with a video for slow people like you. Here are three more, complete with tons of scripture references. Try to learn something. And remember this: You asked me to provide scriptures and I am, so if you don't watch the videos then you prove yourselves to be liars because you never wanted the scriptures. Now watch.


Mary Queen of Heaven

Scott Hahn on the Queenship of the Blessed Virgin Mary

Bishop Barron on The Queenship of Mary
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
There is absolutely nothing in the Scriptures which say that Mary is the Queen of Heaven. All you prove is that you will believe anything, no matter how ridiculous!
 
T

Trump Gurl

Credo in Unum Deum
Great post:

CatholicCrusader said:
Look: in the Old Testament monarchy the Queen of the Davidic Kingdom was the Queen Mother. The Kings, for reasons of state and human weakness, had many wives, none of whom fittingly could be called Queen. That honor was reserved for the mother of the King, whose authority far surpassed the many "queens" married to the king. We see this in the history of Middle Eastern nations of the time. We specifically see this is the role Bathsheba played with respect to King Solomon and the occasions when the Queen Mother acted as regent on behalf of juvenile successors to the throne. Remember, the Jews wanted a king in order to be “like all nations”. Thus, following the models of the neighboring lands, they established a dynasty, a legal system, a royal court – and a queen mother. She was the “Gebirah” – Great Lady.

The role of the Queen Mother, therefore, is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Mary, just as the role of the Davidic King is a prophetic type of the Kingdom role of Jesus. Jesus inherited the Kingdom promised to David, who was told that one of his descendants would rule forever. The angel Gabriel revealed this fact to Mary at her Annunciation: “Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus. He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end." (Luke 1:31-33)

Aside from the prophetic types present in the Kingdom of Judah, there is also the text of Psalm 45, which when speaking of the Kingdom of God also speaks of its Queen.

[6] Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. [7] Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. [8] All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad. [9] Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir. [10] Hearken, O daughter, and consider, and incline thine ear; forget also thine own people, and thy father's house; [11] So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him. (Psalm 45:6-11, KJV)

That Kingdom ruled by God is the same as the Kingdom ruled eternally by the Son of David. It is not an earthly kingdom (though it is present on earth in the Church) but rather a heavenly kingdom, the Kingdom of God. The Queen of that Kingdom is the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of the Lord God Jesus Christ. The Jews who knew Jesus would have understood this perfectly. Jesus is “Son of David” who would inherit the throne of David. And who would inherit the throne at his side, the seat of the Queen Mother? His mother, of course.
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