Is the Holy Spirit Female?

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
It appears in the linear translation that watchman used. Under the text (in green- i missed it at first). They include it to indicate the gender of the object, as they do in other cases as well- I posted an example in the previous post.

There is no pronoun at all in the Hebrew. All nouns in Hebrew have gender, so they wanted to show that.

Chair

Wow what a twist of the Word of God you are trying to fool yourself and others with.:grave:
 

chair

Well-known member
Yeah that's right you've never seen it and now your trying to save face
No, I am not like you. I admit that I missed that.

but actually you're only digging yourself deeper. It say SHE because the Holy Spirit is a SHE. Accept it or admit you are rejecting the Word of God. You can't have it both ways.
It says she in that translation because of the way gender is used in Hebrew. Read one of the links provided. Come on- it won't kill you.
Hebrew is clear in it's feminine pronouns when ascribed to the person. She is a she and he is a he.

Hebrew doesn't use pronouns the way English does, There is no pronoun in those verses.
You simply were not aware of this till now, it's just new information, we all learn new things every day.

I am quite aware of the facts- it is time you learned something yourself. read the links !
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
No, I am not like you. I admit that I missed that.


It says she in that translation because of the way gender is used in Hebrew. Read one of the links provided. Come on- it won't kill you.


Hebrew doesn't use pronouns the way English does, There is no pronoun in those verses.


I am quite aware of the facts- it is time you learned something yourself. read the links !

As said it's you who can't read; I already told you I've read your links and I gave you a response to them. And if you can read the OP I said that every pronoun given for the Holy Spirit in the OT is female. Everyone can see that why can't you? Is it because you can't read properly?
 

chair

Well-known member
As said it's you who can't read; I already told you I've read your links and I gave you a response to them. And if you can read the OP I said that every pronoun given for the Holy Spirit in the OT is female. Everyone can see that why can't you? Is it because you can't read properly?

One more time: There are no pronouns. And all nouns in Hebrew have gender. Yes, the word for "wind" or "spirit" in Hebrew (same word) is female in gender. I have already stated that. That doesn't make the wind a female person. It is just a noun in the female gender. Like "ground".

And your arrogance is well noted.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
One more time: There are no pronouns. And all nouns in Hebrew have gender. Yes, the word for "wind" or "spirit" in Hebrew (same word) is female in gender. I have already stated that. That doesn't make the wind a female person. It is just a noun in the female gender. Like "ground".

And your arrogance is well noted.

Some how I don't think it is just 'one more time'- because of your arrogance.

Now lets look at what you just said; you agree that wind and ground have the female Hebrew pronoun 'she' but when the Holy Spirit is called is given the same female 'she' pronoun in Hebrew you believe that somehow that means the Holy Spirit is male. In every other language it would mean female but you think this is some Hebrew twist or word play? No it's not, it says she because she is a she. That's how Hebrew pronouns work, same as any other language.
 

RealityJerk

New member
Is the Holy Spirit the Mother of Jesus and as the Bride of Christ are we the perfect family? As it says in Luke the Holy Spirit and God the Father over shadowed Mary together when Jesus was conceived.

And when God said 'let US make man in OUR IMAGE' whose image was Eve made from?

The pronoun 'SHE' is use every time in the original Hebrew scriptures when describing the Holy Spirit, here are 40 of them:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm

Numbers 11:26 and SHE is resting on them the spirit and they in ones being written

Numbers 24:2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes and he saw Israel abiding according to their tribes and the spirit of God came upon him to tribes of him and SHE is becoming on him spirit of Elohim

Judges 3:10 and SHE is becoming on him spirit of Yahweh and he is judging Israel

Judges 6:34 and spirit of Yahweh SHE clothed Gideon

Judges 11:29 and SHE is becoming on Jephthah spirit of Yahweh

Judges 13:25 and SHE is starting spirit of Yahweh to agitate him in Camp of Dan

Judges 14:6 and SHE is prospering on him spirit of Yahweh

Judges 14:19 and SHE is prospering on him spirit of Yahweh and he is going down Ashkelon

1 Samuel 10:6 and SHE prospers over you spirit of Yahweh and you prophesy with them

1 Samuel 10:10 and behold line of prophets to meet of him and SHE is prospering on him spirit of Elohim and he is prophesying in midst of them

1 Samuel 11:6 and SHE is prospering spirit of Elohim over Saul to hear of him

1 Samuel 16:13 and SHE is prospering spirit of Yahweh to David from the day he and on ward and he is rising Samuel and he is going the Ramah ward 14 and spirit of Yahweh SHE withdrew from with Saul and SHE frightened him spirit evil from with Yahweh

1 Samuel 19:20 and SHE is becoming on messengers of Saul spirit of Elohim

1 Samuel 19:23 and he [Saul] is going there to Naioth in the Ramah and SHE is becoming on him moreover he spirit of Elohim and he is going to go and he is prophesying

1 Chronicles 12:18 and spirit SHE clothed Amasai head of the thirty

2 Chronicles 24:20 and spirit of Elohim SHE was put on Zechariah son of Jehoiada the priest

Job 26:13 in spirit of him heavens seemly SHE travailed hand of him serpent fugitive

Job 33:4 spirit of El SHE made me and breath of Who Suffices SHE is keeping alive me

Psalm143:10 teach you me to do of approval of you that you Elohim of me spirit of you good SHE shall guide me in land of upright

Isaiah 11:2 and SHE rests on him spirit Yahweh spirit of wisdom and understanding spirit of counsel

Isaiah 40:7 he dries up grass he decays blossom that spirit of Yahweh SHE reverses in him surely grass the people

Isaiah 59:19 and from sunrise of sun glory of him that he shall come as the stream foe spirit of Yahweh SHE makes flee

Ezekiel 2:2 and SHE is coming in me spirit as which he speaks to me and SHE is standing me on feet of me and I am hearing one speaking to me

Ezekiel 3:12 and SHE is lifting me spirit and I am hearing behind me sound of quaking great being glory of Yahweh place of him

Ezekiel 3:14 and spirit SHE lifts up me and she is taking me and I am going bitter in fury spirit of me and hand of Yahweh on me unyielding

Ezekiel 3:22 and SHE is becoming on me there hand of Yahweh and he is saying to me rise you

Ezekiel 3:24 and SHE is coming in me spirit and SHE is standing me on feet of me

Ezekiel 8:3 and SHE is lifting me spirit between the earth and between the heavens and SHE is bringing me Jerusalem ward

Ezekiel 11:1 and SHE is lifting up me spirit and SHE is bringing me gate of house of Yahweh

Ezekiel 11:5 and SHE is falling on me spirit Yahweh

Ezekiel 11:24 and spirit SHE lifts up me and SHE is bringing me Chaldea ward

Ezekiel 37:1 SHE becomes on me hand of Yahweh and he is bringing forth me in spirit of Yahweh

Ezekiel 43:5 and SHE is lifting me spirit and she is bringing me to the court the inner and behold he fills glory of Yahweh the house

I believe the Holy Spirit is indeed feminine. The Godhead, is comprised of Father, Mother/Spirit and Son/Logos. We were created in God's own image, male and female. Most Christians make heaven a very masculine place. God is Father/Masculine, who has a Son/Masculine, who has a bunch of male angels serving His kingdom. The truth is that the earthly masculine and feminine is a reflection of the heavenly masculine and feminine. We have a heavenly Father and a heavenly Mother, but the early Catholic church, eliminated that teaching.
 

chair

Well-known member
Some how I don't think it is just 'one more time'- because of your arrogance.

Now lets look at what you just said; you agree that wind and ground have the female Hebrew pronoun 'she'
No. I have stated repeatedly that there is no pronoun in those verses.
but when the Holy Spirit is called is given the same female 'she' pronoun in Hebrew you believe that somehow that means the Holy Spirit is male. In every other language it would mean female but you think this is some Hebrew twist or word play? No it's not, it says she because she is a she. That's how Hebrew pronouns work, same as any other language.

I have never said that the holy spirit is male. Again- there is no pronoun there. The text does not say "she" in the original. Your linear translation put that in to indicate gender. Did you notice how other translations, even on that same site, don't have a pronoun?

Please note: I am not Christian. I am Jewish. The idea of the Holy Spirit being a person of any sex is foreign to me. I am fluent in reading both Modern and Biblical Hebrew. I speak Modern Hebrew every day, as I live in Israel.
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Actually the Church is the Bride:

Ephesians 5:25–27
25Married men, love your wives, as Christ also loved the Church and gave Himself up to death for her; 26in order to make her holy, cleansing her with the baptismal water by the word, 27that He might present the Church to Himself a glorious BRIDE, without spot or wrinkle or any other defect, but to be holy and unblemished.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous for you with the jealousy of God himself. I promised you as a pure BRIDE to one husband--Christ.

I said
I can see the problem. Context context. Have you ever looked up the word folly?


2 Cor 11:1-2
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly-- and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
(NKJ)


877 aphrosune (af-ros-oo'-nay);

from 878; senselessness, i.e. (euphem.) egotism; (morally) recklessness:

KJV-- folly, foolishly (-ness).

It also fits with wild imagination.

And in Eph That is to married men and their wives.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
No. I have stated repeatedly that there is no pronoun in those verses.


I have never said that the holy spirit is male. Again- there is no pronoun there. The text does not say "she" in the original. Your linear translation put that in to indicate gender. Did you notice how other translations, even on that same site, don't have a pronoun?

Please note: I am not Christian. I am Jewish. The idea of the Holy Spirit being a person of any sex is foreign to me. I am fluent in reading both Modern and Biblical Hebrew. I speak Modern Hebrew every day, as I live in Israel.

It says she because that is what is in the original text, just because you can't read or just want to ignore it for your own personal bizarre reason makes no sense, just like your argument that reduces the Holy Spirit to an inanimate object:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf

Job 33:4

רוּח
ruch
spirit-of

אֵ ל
al
El

עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me

וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
u·nshmth
and breath of

שַׁ דַּ י
shdi
Who Suffices

תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
I said
I can see the problem. Context context. Have you ever looked up the word folly?


2 Cor 11:1-2
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly-- and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
(NKJ)


877 aphrosune (af-ros-oo'-nay);

from 878; senselessness, i.e. (euphem.) egotism; (morally) recklessness:

KJV-- folly, foolishly (-ness).

It also fits with wild imagination.

And in Eph That is to married men and their wives.

Rather than lowering yourself to childish personal attacks try debating the OP, the Holy Spirit is called she every time in the OT here read:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf

Job 33:4

רוּח
ruch
spirit-of

אֵ ל
al
El

עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me

וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
u·nshmth
and breath of

שַׁ דַּ י
shdi
Who Suffices

תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
 

chair

Well-known member
It says she because that is what is in the original text...

It doesn't. There is someone here who can't read, and it isn't me. At least when it comes to Hebrew.

You may want to take a look at the introduction to the linear translation, which explains this.
" Person, number, and gender. The person, number, and gender of all finite verbs are indicated by the use of pronouns as subjects, even when the subject is expressed by means of a noun or independent pronoun (e.g., Gen. 1:1 אלהים ברא [bra aleim], 'he-created God')."​

Can you point to the Hebrew word that is "she" in the text? Don't you wonder why the pronoun doesn't appear in normal translations?

Since you don't trust me on this- go ask a Hebrew expert. A teacher, a professor. You are dependent on translations, which is problematic.
 

WatchmanOnTheWall

Well-known member
It doesn't. There is someone here who can't read, and it isn't me. At least when it comes to Hebrew.

You may want to take a look at the introduction to the linear translation, which explains this.
" Person, number, and gender. The person, number, and gender of all finite verbs are indicated by the use of pronouns as subjects, even when the subject is expressed by means of a noun or independent pronoun (e.g., Gen. 1:1 אלהים ברא [bra aleim], 'he-created God')."​

Can you point to the Hebrew word that is "she" in the text? Don't you wonder why the pronoun doesn't appear in normal translations?

Since you don't trust me on this- go ask a Hebrew expert. A teacher, a professor. You are dependent on translations, which is problematic.

Well I don't speak Hebrew (or live in Israel) I am very envious of you on both counts. I've read the introduction and looked at the chart but I will not pretend that I understand it fully. I may well go find someone who does speak Hebrew and ask them (although this won't be easy). I can see the prefix 'ni' but am only guessing the jot or tittle ' is what makes it a female pronoun?:

עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me

תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
Rather than lowering yourself to childish personal attacks try debating the OP, the Holy Spirit is called she every time in the OT here read:

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/job33.pdf

Job 33:4

רוּח
ruch
spirit-of

אֵ ל
al
El

עָ שָׂ תְ נִ י
oshth·ni
SHE made me

וְ נִ שְׁ מַ ת
u·nshmth
and breath of

שַׁ דַּ י
shdi
Who Suffices

תְּ חַ יֵּנִ י
thchi·ni
SHE is keeping alive me

I said
Where do you get personal attack??? I was showing you that Paul was using "folly" a wild exaggeration.
 

Tigger 2

Active member
'Holy Spirit' in the NT Greek text is neuter and therefore the neuter pronouns meaning 'it,' 'itself,' are used with it in the NT Greek!

Any strictly literal Bible translation would have to use 'it' for the holy spirit. Since it is really not a person, but God's active force -or power-, a literal translation would be helpful in this case.

'Holy spirit' in the OT Hebrew text is in the feminine gender.

"a 1. The Hebrew, like all Semitic languages, recognizes only two genders in the noun, a masculine and a feminine. Inanimate objects and abstract ideas, which other languages sometimes indicate by the neuter,
are regarded in Hebrew as masculine or feminine, more often the latter [feminine]"! - Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar, p. 222, Oxford at the Clarendon Press, 1910. (also seventeenth edition)

So, in the NT 'holy spirit' is neuter. And in the OT it is feminine (which is often used for neuter).
And when we combine these two, we find that 'holy spirit' is certainly not in the masculine gender, but, instead, is neuter!


"On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the Spirit as a divine energy or power." - A Catholic Dictionary.

"The majority of NT texts reveal God's spirit as something, not someone" - New Catholic Encyclopedia, p. 575, Vol. 13, 1967.

"In the NT there is no direct suggestion of a doctrine of the Trinity. The spirit is conceived as an impersonal power by which God effects his will through Christ." - An Encyclopedia of Religion, Ferm (ed.), p. 344.

"It is important to realize that for the first Christians the Spirit was thought of in terms of divine power." - New Bible Dictionary, p. 1139, Tyndale House Publishers, 1984.
 

jaybird

New member
doesent Gen refer to Eve as Adams "helper". and later when Jesus asks the Father to sent the spirit He calls it "helper". just a thought.
 
Top