Is the Flesh Sinful?

[Old Hat]

There is a new movement going around in Christian discussion circles claiming that the flesh body is not sinful and/or that Jesus' flesh was not sinful.

This is being spread in an attempt to create the foundation for the concept that this is what happens to the Christian that gets saved, they receive sinless flesh and are then incapable of sin. It is also making the claim that Jesus' flesh was not sinful because He was divine and therefore immune to temptation.

None of this is Biblical in the least as we have many verses that provide us with evidence that the flesh is of this fallen world and that it is the source of lusts for worldly things. It is one of our greatest battles while on the earth ... 'in the flesh.'

 

[Bradley D]

I believe there will always be a battle between the flesh and the spirit.

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal. 5:17).

Love/Agape and Pray Always!

 

[Old Hat]

I believe there will always be a battle between the flesh and the spirit.

Yes, until we receive our glorified bodies that will finally be immune to the trappings of temptation in this fallen world. Only then will we be changed, made incorruptible and immortal. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal. 5:17).

This is one of the main verses that prove this concept to be true - most who differ with this idea will not even address it.

Nice reference.

 

[Old Hat]

Beware of this lie that is making its rounds.

Here are some excerpts from an article attempting to make the case that the flesh in NOT sinful.
https://www.simplybible.com/f812-sinlg-is-the-flesh-evil.htm

Speaking of these verses ...
Galatians 5:17
1 Peter 2:11
Romans 7:18-25
... they have this to say:

"It would be easy, don't you think, to see these verses as teaching that the flesh of man is evil and is the enemy of man's spirit?"

Yes, of course we would conclude that. That is the Biblical message.

The Flesh is No More Evil than the Mind.​

... blaming your flesh for your sins is not valid, because if you apply logic to that proposition you come to the crazy conclusion that you should cut bits out of your body.

If your hand does something evil, can you blame your hand? If so, then you should get rid of your hand. But of course it is not your hand causing you to sin. On the contrary, it is you causing your hand to sin.

The concept that the author is purposely skirting here is that it is the desires, that the body is full of, that make it susceptible to temptations.

Just as the author disregards in 1 Peter 2:11, we are to abstain from the desires that originate in the flesh as they war against our very soul.

 

[Bradley D]

And the Heart

"...the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Gen. 8:21).

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander" (Mt. 15:19).

 

[Old Hat]

And the Heart

"...the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth" (Gen. 8:21).

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander" (Mt. 15:19).

Apparently the concepts of the heart and the flesh seem to overlap.

"Now the works of the flesh ... are these; adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, ..."
(Galatians 5:19)

I'd say that's further proof that it is the physical body that is so prone to these evils. Makes sense because it is made up of the same basic building blocks as the rest of the material fallen/cursed world.

A lot of modern Christian teaching tends toward the belief that we are in no battle once we are saved. That all dangers, and temptations, are from outside of us - somewhere out there - somewhere else.

The fact is that the dangers are present within our very bodies ...

"I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."
(Romans 7:21)

... and, thus, we must fight against our body, with all its desires for sensuality, until we take our final breath. We must deny ourselves; our personal comforts and desires.

The modern churchian message: "Eat, drink and be merry!"

The Biblical message: "Deny thyself, purify thyself and seek God diligently."

 

[Hoping]

There is a new movement going around in Christian discussion circles claiming that the flesh body is not sinful and/or that Jesus' flesh was not sinful.

This is being spread in an attempt to create the foundation for the concept that this is what happens to the Christian that gets saved, they receive sinless flesh and are then incapable of sin. It is also making the claim that Jesus' flesh was not sinful because He was divine and therefore immune to temptation.

None of this is Biblical in the least as we have many verses that provide us with evidence that the flesh is of this fallen world and that it is the source of lusts for worldly things. It is one of our greatest battles while on the earth ... 'in the flesh.'

What kind of sin can your fingernails commit?
How about your hair?
Skin and bones are just the vessel the mind commands.
I rejoice in the knowledge that as a reborn person, all the old me has passed away and been made new. (2 Cor 5:17)
Skin and bones are not even under consideration.
It is the mind that must change at conversion.

 

[Hoping]

Beware of this lie that is making its rounds.

Here are some excerpts from an article attempting to make the case that the flesh in NOT sinful.
https://www.simplybible.com/f812-sinlg-is-the-flesh-evil.htm

Speaking of these verses ...
Galatians 5:17
1 Peter 2:11
Romans 7:18-25
... they have this to say:

Yes, of course we would conclude that. That is the Biblical message.

The concept that the author is purposely skirting here is that it is the desires, that the body is full of, that make it susceptible to temptations.

Just as the author disregards in 1 Peter 2:11, we are to abstain from the desires that originate in the flesh as they war against our very soul.

We can't blame our arms, legs, and pancreas for what the fleshly based mind is compelled to seek/do/commit.
Thank God we get a divine mind/nature at our rebirth.
The skin and bones are just the carrying case.

 

[Old Hat]

I rejoice in the knowledge that as a reborn person, all the old me has passed away and been made new. (2 Cor 5:17)

You've already received your Glorified Body. That's great. Your physical body is immortal and incorruptible now.
(1 Corinthians 15:50, 52-53)

Skin and bones are not even under consideration.

God disagrees with you. The Bible is His Word, His mind, His opinions, His rules.

Sorry about that.

"... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ..."
(1 Corinthians 15:50)

Thank God we get a divine mind/nature at our rebirth.

Yes, but our flesh is unchanged until Christ's return.

Until that time it is of this world; it is corruptible, it is mortal, it is sinful.

You can't oppose God's Word and win.

Any stubborn attempt results only in lying to, and deceiving, yourself.

 

[Hoping]

You've already received your Glorified Body. That's great. Your physical body is immortal and incorruptible now.
(1 Corinthians 15:50, 52-53)

Nope, that hope is still in my future, but my new mind runs the ship now, thanks be to God.
The old fleshly based mind was killed with Christ at my baptism into Him and into His death and burial.
Now I walk in the scriptural newness of life.

God disagrees with you. The Bible is His Word, His mind, His opinions, His rules.

Amen to His rules.

Sorry about that.
"... flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ..."
(1 Corinthians 15:50)
Yes, but our flesh is unchanged until Christ's return.

The skin and bones are subject to our new minds.
They are just the vessel, the temple of the Holy Ghost, now.

Until that time it is of this world; it is corruptible, it is mortal, it is sinful.

It doesn't have a mind of its own.
Mortal doesn't equal sinful.

You can't oppose God's Word and win.
Any stubborn attempt results only in lying to, and deceiving, yourself.

Amen to that.
Who is in control of your vessel?

 

[Old Hat]

my new mind runs the ship now, thanks be to God.

Not at every single moment.

That's why James reminds us that we "all stumble (offend the Holy Spirit) often..." James 3:2

Now I walk in the scriptural newness of life.

Do you ever sin? James makes it clear that we all do unless we are "perfect."
(James 3:2)

Are you perfect?

It is what we are to strive for, but it is outside our human grasp until we receive our glorified bodies.

The skin and bones are subject to our new minds.
They are just the vessel, the temple of the Holy Ghost, now.

We reside in flesh bodies that are susceptible to the devil, and many of his temptations, until the day we die physically.

Jesus' mission consisted of the exact same challenge that we face daily and He prevailed.

You are not holier, nor less susceptible to sin, than Jesus was.

It doesn't have a mind of its own.
Mortal doesn't equal sinful.

It is flesh. It is of this fallen world. It is susceptible to sin temptation. Call it what you like.

Who is in control of your vessel?

I am when I am walking in the Spirit, but I am not perfect.

I am susceptible to the temptations of the devil at times because he is very powerful AND because God gives him permission to test me at times, to prove me and sometimes even to punish me.

This is true for all Christians as well.

 

[Hoping]

Not at every single moment.

If your repentance form sin was a lie to God you will continue to sin.
If your repentance from sin, (turn from sin), was real, you won't sin anymore.

That's why James reminds us that we "all stumble (offend the Holy Spirit) often..." James 3:2

You are misreading it.

Do you ever sin?

No, as my repentance from sin was real.

James makes it clear that we all do unless we are "perfect."
(James 3:2)
Are you perfect?

Yes., thanks be to God.
In all things relating to obedience to God.

It is what we are to strive for, but it is outside our human grasp until we receive our glorified bodies.

Our bodies cannot commit sin without the mind's controlling it.

We reside in flesh bodies that are susceptible to the devil, and many of his temptations, until the day we die physically.

You are kidding yourself.
Does your hair commit sin?
Your finger nails, eye brows, elbows, toes?
The mind runs the ship, and if the mind is holy, it will not compel the vessel to commit sin.

Jesus' mission consisted of the exact same challenge that we face daily and He prevailed.

So can the reborn.

You are not holier, nor less susceptible to sin, than Jesus was.

You are right, but having the same Father, Spirit, divine nature, and the promises from God, we can be as our Master.
It is written..."It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord." (Matt 10:25)

It is flesh. It is of this fallen world. It is susceptible to sin temptation. Call it what you like.

It is the vessel of the Holy Ghost since its sanctification and rebirth.
Just skin and bones.
It has no power to do anything without the minds consent.

I am when I am walking in the Spirit, but I am not perfect.

Men can't walk in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Pick one, and be prepared to pay a high price.

I am susceptible to the temptations of the devil at times because he is very powerful AND because God gives him permission to test me at times, to prove me and sometimes even to punish me.

Your temptations are not as powerful as God.
You will need to provide any one verse saying God gives the devil permission to tempt us.
In fact, it is written..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Start looking for the escapes instead of offending God or neighbor.

This is true for all Christians as well.

Your idea of a servant of God is very different than mine.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." (1 John 3:9-10)

 

[Old Hat]

my repentance from sin was real.

So you claim that you haven't broken a single one of the 10 Commandments since you got saved.

Hog wash. You just "lied."

Do you also obey the 4th Commandment?

Yes., thanks be to God.
In all things relating to obedience to God.

You are claiming to obey all of the 10 Commandments, but you will not admit to obeying the 4th.

That is hypocrisy.

Our bodies cannot commit sin without the mind's controlling it.

You are the one that has injected that claim into this discussion. That's called a Straw Man, as you well know.

I never said the physical body commits sin. The Bible says that the body is where desire resides.

Argue with God about what HE says is True.

You are kidding yourself.
Does your hair commit sin?
Your finger nails, eye brows, elbows, toes?
The mind runs the ship, and if the mind is holy, it will not compel the vessel to commit sin.

Desire/lust resides in the physical body; in the flesh.

You've heard of the many cases of people receiving transplanted body parts and organs that result in the person experiencing desires they never have before, liking things they hated before, or even not liking things anymore that they loved before. These cases go back many decades and are well documented.

Look it up. They're easy to find.

The Bible tells us that desires reside in the flesh, we have countless documented cases that prove that very fact.

It is the vessel of the Holy Ghost since its sanctification and rebirth.
Just skin and bones.
It has no power to do anything without the minds consent.

You need to make up your mind. Either the flesh is purified, sanctified, holy and incapable of sin - or it is "just skin and bones."

You can't have it both ways.

Men can't walk in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Pick one, and be prepared to pay a high price.

Galatians 5:16 makes it clear that we can do either. Contrary to your delusions, we are not free from sin and temptations yet. We still have many a trial and tribulations here upon the earth before we are free from all of the snares of this world.

You will need to provide any one verse saying God gives the devil permission to tempt us.

You don't know your Bible well at all. You are here for the purpose of diminishing God's Word and casting doubt upon The Almighty.

There are many verses throughout Scripture that make this clear. Here are just a small sample.

"... and the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: ..." 1 Samuel 19:9
After asking for permission to tempt and torment Job, the Lord responds to satan: "And the Lord said unto satan, behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."
Job 2:6-7

Throughout the book of Job, satan asked permission for each and every attack upon Job and his family.

Your idea of a servant of God is very different than mine.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Yes, it is very different. My idea is Biblically accurate. Your idea originates from the traditions of men and is popular among modern churchianity, but holds not a drop of Spirit.

If saved Christians were no longer capable of sin, we would not have 1 John 3:4, James 3:2, John 14:15, John 15:14, John 14:21-23, Revelations 14:12, and many more.

Jesus calls these following Christians "workers of iniquity". That means those who sin habitually and cause many others to by their example. We know they are Christians because those who are not cannot cast out demons and have not the faith to seek God so diligently.

Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Hoping]

So you claim that you haven't broken a single one of the 10 Commandments since you got saved.
Hog wash. You just "lied."

What I "claim" is that I have not broken either of the commandments of Christ Jesus.
Those being Love God with all your might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Do you also obey the 4th Commandment?

Yes, as everyday is the Lord's day and I remain holy everyday, instead of just one out of seven.

You are claiming to obey all of the 10 Commandments, but you will not admit to obeying the 4th.

I just did "admit" I keep the fourth.
Don't you?

That is hypocrisy.

It would have been had I answered "NO".

You are the one that has injected that claim into this discussion. That's called a Straw Man, as you well know.

Which "claim" do you refer to?

I never said the physical body commits sin. The Bible says that the body is where desire resides.

Good, and we can agree on that point.
Skin and bones cannot commit sin.
Especially after it has been killed, buried, and raise with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)

Argue with God about what HE says is True.

Amen to that.

Desire/lust resides in the physical body; in the flesh.

Perhaps that is the reason rebirth is necessary to receive eternal life.

You've heard of the many cases of people receiving transplanted body parts and organs that result in the person experiencing desires they never have before, liking things they hated before, or even not liking things anymore that they loved before. These cases go back many decades and are well documented.

Only in the sci-fi movies.

Look it up. They're easy to find.

No thanks.
It is the mind that controls our actions.
Thanks be to God, though, we get a new mind at rebirth, the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:16)

The Bible tells us that desires reside in the flesh, we have countless documented cases that prove that very fact.

I am glad I don't walk after the flesh any more.
We can all walk in the Spirit now...glory be to God.

You need to make up your mind. Either the flesh is purified, sanctified, holy and incapable of sin - or it is "just skin and bones."

Both.
The Holy Ghost will not reside in a corrupted temple.

You can't have it both ways.
Galatians 5:16 makes it clear that we can do either. Contrary to your delusions, we are not free from sin and temptations yet. We still have many a trial and tribulations here upon the earth before we are free from all of the snares of this world.

If you are trying to walk in the light and in the darkness at the same time you are double minded.
Pick one and do so to the glory of God.

You don't know your Bible well at all. You are here for the purpose of diminishing God's Word and casting doubt upon The Almighty.

A God that had His Son come and die for our past sins and offer us eternal life in Himself.
There is no sin "in Christ".

There are many verses throughout Scripture that make this clear. Here are just a small sample.
"... and the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: ..." 1 Samuel 19:9
After asking for permission to tempt and torment Job, the Lord responds to satan: "And the Lord said unto satan, behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. So went satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."
Job 2:6-7
Throughout the book of Job, satan asked permission for each and every attack upon Job and his family.
Yes, it is very different. My idea is Biblically accurate. Your idea originates from the traditions of men and is popular among modern churchianity, but holds not a drop of Spirit.
If saved Christians were no longer capable of sin, we would not have 1 John 3:4, James 3:2, John 14:15, John 15:14, John 14:21-23, Revelations 14:12, and many more.
Jesus calls these following Christians "workers of iniquity". That means those who sin habitually and cause many others to by their example. We know they are Christians because those who are not cannot cast out demons and have not the faith to seek God so diligently.

Matthew 7:21-23

As Paul wrote to the Corinthians..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
He didn't exhort us to do the impossible.

 

[Old Hat]

What I "claim" is that I have not broken either of the commandments of Christ Jesus.
Those being Love God with all your might, and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Christ's Commandments are God's Commandments. Read your KJV.

"I and the Father are ONE." (John 10:30)
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He (the Father) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)
"it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these (10) commandments before the LORD our God (the Father), as he hath commanded us." (Deut. 6:25)

"I can of My own self to nothing: ... I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me." (John 5:30)

"... then shall ye know that I (Jesus) am He (the Father), and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)

- Jesus' Commandments are the Father's Commandments; they are the 10 Commandments, just as He followed all of the 10 Commandments. "... I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love." (John 15:10)

Yes, as everyday is the Lord's day and I remain holy everyday, instead of just one out of seven.

Can't wait to see the Scripture for that nonsense. And once you've delivered your best attempt (likely Psalm 118:24), I'll show you the two passages that undeniably define that term.

Only in the sci-fi movies.

There's lots of documented cases. They can't be found if you don't look.

It is the mind that controls our actions.
Thanks be to God, though, we get a new mind at rebirth, the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:16)

Being reborn, born again, doesn't give us glorified bodies. I'm so sorry for your delusion.

The Holy Ghost will not reside in a corrupted temple.

But the temple He resides in is still capable of sin; of offending the Holy Spirit. You are deaf-earing James 3:2.

If you are trying to walk in the light and in the darkness at the same time you are double minded.

You are double-minded if you have deluded yourself that you are already made perfect. Where is the humility in that? Where is the endurance?

You are deceived to imagine that you are incapable of mistakes anymore; that you are ready for heaven.

You are traveling down the wide road. You are destined to cry, "Lord, Lord.."!!

 

[Hoping]

Christ's Commandments are God's Commandments. Read your KJV.
"I and the Father are ONE." (John 10:30)
"The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father do: for what things soever He (the Father) doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)
"it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these (10) commandments before the LORD our God (the Father), as he hath commanded us." (Deut. 6:25)
"I can of My own self to nothing: ... I seek not Mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent Me." (John 5:30)
"... then shall ye know that I (Jesus) am He (the Father), and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things." (John 8:28)
- Jesus' Commandments are the Father's Commandments; they are the 10 Commandments, just as He followed all of the 10 Commandments. "... I have kept My Father's Commandments, and abide in His love." (John 15:10) therein

Amen to that, and as Jesus' words concerning loving God above all else and loving our neighbors as we love ourself encompassed the original ten, we are both on the right track.

Can't wait to see the Scripture for that nonsense. And once you've delivered your best attempt (likely Psalm 118:24), I'll show you the two passages that undeniably define that term.

Is there a day that is not the Lord's?

There's lots of documented cases. They can't be found if you don't look.

No thanks.

Being reborn, born again, doesn't give us glorified bodies. I'm so sorry for your delusion.

I agree, but the vessel we do have is sanctified for the residence of the Holy Ghost.
Unless of course we don't repent of sin and get washed of all past sin by the blood of Christ.

But the temple He resides in is still capable of sin; of offending the Holy Spirit. You are deaf-earing James 3:2.

I don't agree, as the "temple" is a new creature.
Different from the one you refer to.

You are double-minded if you have deluded yourself that you are already made perfect. Where is the humility in that? Where is the endurance?

It is in line with Jesus' commandment in Matt 5:48..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."
And Paul's admonition in 2 Tim 2:19..."Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Ans Peter's admonition in 2 Pet4er 1:10..."Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
And John's words in 1 John 3:9..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

You are deceived to imagine that you are incapable of mistakes anymore; that you are ready for heaven.

"Mistakes" aren't sins.

You are traveling down the wide road. You are destined to cry, "Lord, Lord.."!!

You must have me confused with some worker of iniquity.
Freedom from committing sin is made possible by the truth Jesus cited in John 8:32-34.
It is real.