Is the Desert just another Ocean?

[ok doser]

Do not do evil that good may come of it.

I've never understood the argument that murdering a child is preferable to allowing that child to suffer. Just as I've never understood the argument that it's okay to murder a child before it's born but it's not okay to murder it after it's born.

But I recognize the arguments. I used to encounter them all the time when I was active on the toxic feminist group on Facebook.

 

[Skeeter]

"I do not see how...." makes whatever you say next an appeal to incredulity BY DEFINITION.

Wrong. It can mean I need clarification only. Pay attention to context.

You were claiming, by your appeal to incredulity, that a Christian Theonomy would be the same as or worse than Sharia Law.

I was comparing the two and wanting Right Diviner to explain the difference.

Your claim, aside from being fallacious, is wrong.

When will someone explain WHY it is wrong instead of dancing around with nonsense.

You quoted me, not RD, in the post that I was responding to.

Your quote was in reaction to my statement in response to Diviner. Keep track.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Wrong. It can mean I need clarification only. Pay attention to context.

Then you should have just asked for clarification. Not made a statement of incredulity.

I was comparing the two and wanting Right Diviner to explain the difference.

It's "Right Divider," not "Diviner."

And if that were true, then you should have @mentioned him.

When will someone explain WHY it is wrong instead of dancing around with nonsense.

When you learn how to ask politely.

Your quote was in reaction to my statement in response to Diviner. Keep track.

:yawn:

 

[Skeeter]

What would be even more preferable is if people didn't have sex outside of marriage.

It is time to abandon Puritanism. Young adults need to experience a lot of sex with many partners as young adults to figure out compatibility and to experience the joy of their sexuality. They then can make an informed chose of who to marry. Nothing worse than a sterile marriage.

Then contraceptives wouldn't be needed except for married couples who don't want to have kids, but still want to have sex (as weird as that would be).

Not weird.

There should be no such thing as an "unwanted child."

Yes- a good goal.

Do not do evil that good may come of it.

That's something Paul taught. He was right.

No I think he was wrong. It is better to recognize necessary evil. And, not pretend bad is good, Killing in self-defense may be a necessary evil. Killing a human is never good.

Life begins at conception. This is established medical fact.

Legal rights start at birth, An established legal fact. I actually think fetal rights should attach when viability is achieved.

The baby in the womb is the same person the moment after conception as he is at his death bed 90 years later.

A microscopic entity is the same a human with an identity, a history, and loved ones? That is untrue because it is so hard to believe... (a gift for you).

 

[Skeeter]

Then you should have just asked for clarification. Not made a statement of incredulity.

Sorry, this is a common occurrence in English parlance. You are off on this point. Do you ever admit errors?

It's "Right Divider," not "Diviner."

Yes, and it's User Name not LUser Name. So?

And if that were true, then you should have @mentioned him.

The chain of texts makes it implicit.

When you learn how to ask politely.

I asked Diviner politely before you chimed in about an error in logic.

 

[Right Divider]

It is time to abandon Puritanism. Young adults need to experience a lot of sex with many partners as young adults to figure out compatibility and to experience the joy of their sexuality.

And transmit sexual diseases as much as possible.

Your moral principles are terrible or non-existent.

Sex with only one other person is far more satifying than your proposed promiscuity.

 

[JudgeRightly]

It is time to abandon Puritanism.

Because you say so?

Young adults need to experience a lot of sex with many partners as young adults to figure out compatibility and to experience the joy of their sexuality. They then can make an informed chose of who to marry.

So women should be sluts and men should be be promiscuous?

Isn't that what we have already, and yet the birth rate is declining, most marriages end in divorce, and all for the sake of "progress"?

Nothing worse than a sterile marriage.

Which is what happens when people become sex addicts prior to marriage.

Not weird.

The act of procreation (what we humans call "sex") is designed to result in a new human being being created.

Taking contraceptives to prevent that from happening is counterproductive to that, and thus, it is weird.

Yes- a good goal.

Which isn't accomplished by your position.

No I think he was wrong.

And that makes you wrong.

It is better to recognize necessary evil.

... As evil, and not something to be done.

And, not pretend bad is good,

... and not pretend bad is good.

Killing in self-defense may be a necessary evil.

Killing in self-defense is a good thing. Killing just to kill is evil.

Killing a human is never good.

But you don't believe that.

Abortion is wrong because it's a baby. It's always wrong to kill a baby.

Legal rights start at birth,

Human rights start at conception.

Such as, the right to life.

An established legal fact.

This is false.

I actually think fetal rights should attach when viability is achieved.

Which is a very arbitrary position which only serves to allow the killing of some babies.

Life begins at conception. That's a fact. Thus, any rights that an individual has begin there.

A microscopic entity is the same a human with an identity, a history, and loved ones?

A microscopic human is still human, from the moment of his conception to his death.

That is untrue because it is so hard to believe... (a gift for you).

Facts don't care about your feelings.

 

[Idolater]

Young adults need to experience a lot of sex with many partners

Nope.

 

[ok doser]

It is time to abandon Puritanism.

Pretty sure that happened a few hundred years ago

Young adults need to experience a lot of sex with many partners ...

No

I actually think ...

Liar

 

[Skeeter]

I've never understood the argument that murdering a child is preferable to allowing that child to suffer.

I do in the case of Trisomy 13. My position is that abortion is wrong, but allowing the woman to choose is better than allowing government to choose. Control over reproduction leads to less poverty and crime on the societal level. It is not my claim that it is better for the fetus - in most cases.

Just as I've never understood the argument that it's okay to murder a child before it's born but it's not okay to murder it after it's born.

The location of one human INSIDE another is relevant. Agency of one's own body is Constitutional right that bars the government from taking control of someone's biology unless there is a substantial reason to do so and no other methods are available to achieve the result. The developing fetus is a biological reaction using the genetics of the mother. The mother deserves agency over her own body. So in the case of rape, she should be able to repel the process at any reasonable time.

 

[Skeeter]

Because you say so?

Nope, for the reason I move to in the very next sentence. Patience please.

So women should be sluts and men should be be promiscuous?

No, humans can be sexual beings without shame and nonsense.

Isn't that what we have already, and yet the birth rate is declining, most marriages end in divorce, and all for the sake of "progress"?

Some divorces happen because the partners are not sexually compatible. The parts do not fit without pain. Test drive your vehicle at least.

Which is what happens when people become sex addicts prior to marriage.

In most cases, Sex addicts occur because of a period of sexual deprivation and repression that bursts, not from free expression and exploration at an appropriate age and pace.

The act of procreation (what we humans call "sex") is designed to result in a new human being being created.

Sex and procreation are related but they are two separate concepts. The vast majority of sex acts do not result in procreation even before we consider contraception. Sex serves other functions like enhancing bonding and devotion.

Taking contraceptives to prevent that from happening is counterproductive to that, and thus, it is weird.

Family Planning is the most moral action there is.

Killing in self-defense is a good thing. Killing just to kill is evil.

Killing in self defense is regrettable. There is always the possibility that self-defense could have occurred without death, but it isn't practical to hold people strictly accountable in ambiguous circumstances. Calling killing in self defense a good thing makes Riddenhouse a hero and that is surreal and sends the wrong message.

But you don't believe that.

Abortion is wrong because it's a baby. It's always wrong to kill a baby.

A fetus in the first two trimesters is not a infant by definition.

Human rights start at conception.

According to you? This is not the state of the law in the US in any state. Facts do not care about your feelings.

A microscopic human is still human, from the moment of his conception to his death.

I'm sorry -- treating a microbial life form the same as we treat a human being is impractical. Should someone who takes the morning after pill get the death penalty then?

 

[ok doser]

Agency of one's own body is ...

... is a concept that is ignored in the case of the child


And agency of one's own body, when applied to the mother with an infant, would allow her to abandon that infant at her whim.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm sorry -- treating a microbial life form the same as we treat a human being is impractical. Should someone who takes the morning after pill get the death penalty then?

Human life is never "microbial".

 

[Skeeter]

... is a concept that is ignored in the case of the child


And agency of one's own body, when applied to the mother with an infant, would allow her to abandon that infant at her whim.

Nope. You are misapplying the concept. Persons have a large level of control what happens within and upon their body. This does not mean that they have complete say about how they act externally.

A child can be adopted. A fetus is dependent on the biological resources of the mother until it is viable on its own. A rape victim need not share resources being taken without permission. Pregnancy takes a toll on a woman's body that should not be taken lightly.

 

[ok doser]

A fetus is dependent on the biological resources of the mother until it is viable on its own.

A child is dependent on the biological resources of the mother long after birth.
It does not become viably independent at birth.

In fact, a mother with an infant has less agency than a pregnant mother does.

 

[Skeeter]

Human life is never "microbial".

True in a literal sense. However, development loosely recapitulates evolution of our species. There is a phase where the reptilian brain develops for instance. This is not to say that the fetus is a human reptile.

 

[Right Divider]

True in a literal sense.

Microscopic perhaps.

However, development loosely recapitulates evolution of our species.

Absolute baloney and even knowledgeable evolutionists know better.

There is a phase where the reptilian brain develops for instance.

Nonsense.

This is not to say that the fetus is a human reptile.

Duh.

Recaputilation is a fabricated myth that some dummies still believe.

 

[Stripe]

Yes. Contraception would be preferable, but prevention of the birth of unwanted children is a necessary evil that brings about a greater good. A fetus in the first trimester is little more than the idea of a person.

You're little more than the idea of a person.

 

[Skeeter]

You're little more than the idea of a person.

I wish you were only a figment of my imagination.

 

[Yorzhik]

I wish you were only a figment of my imagination.

While you might wish to wish Stripe away, you have to admit he's right. Not only are you little more than the idea of a person, but you are also just a clump of cells.