Is Spiritual Maturity Possible

[Veritas veritate]

The context is Genesis 1:26-27.

Context refers to the immediate surrounding text of that which requires clarification. In our case, we are looking for clarification of Matthew 5:28; therefore, the context is Matthew 5:43-47. "Be therefore" in verse 48 tells us that the context in which we must look is in the preceding passages, as it indicates that Jesus is concluding a thought or idea. So it is in verses 43-47 that you will find the context and the way in which he is telling the multitude to be perfect.

I ask that you read Matthew 5:43-47 and see if you can tell me what the object of perfection is that Jesus is talking about.

 

[jamie]

Read the second sentence you quoted here. The answer is already there.

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)​

So you agree God is perfect?

 

[jamie]

I ask that you read Matthew 5:43-47 and see if you can tell me what the object of perfection is that Jesus is talking about.

Let's cut to the bottom line. Can humans be made perfect?

 

[Veritas veritate]

Let's cut to the bottom line. Can humans be made perfect?

Perfect? No. Only God is perfect. We, as contingent beings, cannot exist in a perfect state; however, the righteousness and perfection of Jesus the Messiah is imputed to us upon coming to the full knowledge of Jesus the Messiah.


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[Veritas veritate]

Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him, male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)​

So you agree God is perfect?

The image in which we were made is not perfection. The image is that we are body, soul, and spirit. That is the short of it. I do not have time to elaborate at this time. If you would like, I can elaborate on it later.


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[jamie]

Perfect?
No. Only God is perfect.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24)​

Just men made perfect.

 

[Veritas veritate]

I am just curious to know whether or not you purposely left off the rest of my post. This is now the second time you have avoided portions of my post within this same thread. If you are doing this on purpose you are being intellectually and spiritually dishonest.

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. (Hebrews 12:22-24)​

Just men made perfect.

Again, context is key. If you would have completely read my last post you would see that this verse in context describes those of which I spoke and which you conveniently left out of your quote.

(Hebrews 12:23b) και πνευμασιν δικαιων τετελειωμενων Translation: And to the spirits of the righteous who have been perfected.

This is in reference to those who have come to the full knowledge of Jesus the Messiah and who have their identity in Christ. Again, it is those who have been perfected; that is, imputed with the righteousness and perfection of Christ that are being referenced here.

It then raises the question perfected in what? The answer to this question lies within the context of Matthew 5:43-48, which you have also conveniently ignored. And, to make things easier for you, I will give the answer. It is perfected in love. The context in which Matthew 5:48 is placed is love. It is also mentioned many times elsewhere as the object of perfection.... *see* 1 John 2:5; 4:12; 4:17; 4:18. Is it any wonder that the greatest fruit of the Spirit is love? Is it any wonder that all sin is rooted in the love of something other than God; usually ourselves?

Therefore, to answer the OP of this thread... Yes, spiritual maturity is possible. It is manifest in us by the Spirit as God's love perfected in those who are identified in Jesus the Messiah having been imputed with his righteousness and perfection.

There is nothing more to say about this matter. I will be praying that you will have your eyes opened to the truth that you may become perfected in the love of God.

~Veritas Veritate

 

[jamie]

Therefore, to answer the OP of this thread... Yes, spiritual maturity is possible.

And yet you claim spiritual perfection was not attainable for Adam. Why?

 

[Veritas veritate]

And yet you claim spiritual perfection was not attainable for Adam. Why?

Spiritual maturity is not the same as spiritual perfection by any means. Perfection is not something that is attainable. As I have said over and over, we obtain the righteousness and perfection of Jesus the Messiah when it is imputed to us through acknowledging Jesus as our Lord and Savior. It is not our perfection we come to possess: it is His and His alone. To believe that anyone can attain perfection is humanistic at its best.

Spiritual maturity is something we can attain as we grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Messiah. Maturity is something that is a process and is never complete. As long as we live we can continue to mature, and we can only stop once we are dead. At no point during this life will anyone become sinless; however, the more we mature, the more we will sin less.


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[jamie]

Spiritual maturity is not the same as spiritual perfection by any means.

G5048 τελειόω teleioō tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

 

[jamie]

Adam was created perfect within the context of his design criteria. He was designed to sin and so he did. Each one of us is designed to sin, it's for our development.

 

[Veritas veritate]

G5048 τελειόω teleioō tel-i-o'-o
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.

Yes, I already know the definition of τελειόω. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? There is never a context to perfection that is applied to man existing in a state of perfection outside of the righteousness and perfection of Jesus the Messiah being imputed on us. As much as it seems that you want to believe that you can attain your own perfection, it will never change the truth that it is the perfection of Jesus the Messiah, not your own, that you may obtain by acknowledging him as Lord and Savior. When God looks at a believer he sees the perfection of His son, Jesus the Messiah.

 

[jamie]

Yes, I already know the definition of τελειόω. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? There is never a context to perfection that is applied to man existing in a state of perfection outside of the righteousness and perfection of Jesus the Messiah being imputed on us. As much as it seems that you want to believe that you can attain your own perfection, it will never change the truth that it is the perfection of Jesus the Messiah, not your own, that you may obtain by acknowledging him as Lord and Savior. When God looks at a believer he sees the perfection of His son, Jesus the Messiah.

But who imputed righteousness and perfection to Jesus, the Messiah?

 

[Veritas veritate]

Adam was created perfect within the context of his design criteria.

Now you are just grasping at straws just to stay afloat. Saying that Adam was created perfectly within the context of his design criteria would make Adam perfectly flawed; which is logically absurd. Adam was not created perfect "within the context of his design criteria," and you should be extremely thankful that he was not; as it was because he was not complete that God removed a rib from man and made woman.

Adam was designed to sin and so he did. Each one of us is designed to sin, it's for our development.

There are a couple of things here I need to address. First, yes, Adam was designed with a sinful nature, and it was inevitable that man would sooner or later sin, but the primary purpose of such a design was not so that man would sin. The primary reason the ability to sin was given was to give man the ability to have a choice, that is, to give him a will; not a "free will" mind you, but a will. To deny that man has any kind of will would be absurd.

Second, to claim that Adam was designed with a sinful nature posses those of us who believe as such with a huge problem. If man was designed with a sinful nature, and it was inevitable that man would sin because of that nature, how is it that man is then responsible for sin? Before I answer this question, I am curious to see what your reason is. This question alone could be another tread in and of itself.

 

[Veritas veritate]

But who imputed righteousness and perfection to Jesus, the Messiah?

Jesus does not need righteousness and perfection imputed to him because he is righteousness and perfection. Those who claim that Jesus could have sinned could not be more wrong. He could, and did experience all that a physical being can suffer, including temptation, but he could not sin; for he did not possess a sinful nature.

 

[jamie]

Jesus does not need righteousness and perfection imputed to him because he is righteousness and perfection. Those who claim that Jesus could have sinned could not be more wrong. He could, and did experience all that a physical being can suffer, including temptation, but he could not sin; for he did not possess a sinful nature.

Yes, Jesus didn't sin, but do you know why?

 

[jamie]

Adam was not created perfect "within the context of his design criteria," and you should be extremely thankful that he was not; as it was because he was not complete that God removed a rib from man and made woman.

Not true. Reproduction requires a male and a female. For example, we know Jesus was not intimate with a female and yet he was complete.

 

[jamie]

Husbands, love your wives just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. (Ephesians 5:25-27)​

Are you saying a glorious church, holy and without blemish is less than perfect? I disagree.

 

[Veritas veritate]

Not true. Reproduction requires a male and a female. For example, we know Jesus was not intimate with a female and yet he was complete.

Jesus was not a reproduction. He had no father (humanly speaking). He was not conceived in sin as is every other human that ever drew or will draw breath on this earth.


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[Veritas veritate]

Yes, Jesus didn't sin, but do you know why?

Jesus didn't sin because he didn't possess the sinful nature that we do.


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