Is Prophecy Being Fulfilled in the Dispensation of Grace?

[glorydaz]

@glorydaz You seem to think that the judgment of the "sheep and the goats" will have only goats.

Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.​

No, I don’t think any such thing. You may think you know what I’m saying, but this comment only shows me that you don’t.

 

[Right Divider]

No, I don’t think any such thing. You may think you know what I’m saying, but this comment only shows me that you don’t.

It wasn't meant to offend.

I thought that you said that all nations would be against Israel.

Yes, those date setters didn’t do a good work, but that shouldn’t stop people from seeing what’s going on in the world today, and how it’s lining up with the Bible. Since Israel became a nation, in fulfillment of prophecy, we watch as all nations turn against them. Just as predicted. When people panic because of what they’re seeing in the world today, it can be a comfort to know this is all in God’s control, and when we preach the gospel to the lost, they can see God is at work even today.

 

[glorydaz]

These signs you are suggesting have been "seen" by every generation of believers for the last 2000 years and they almost always have been making the same error that you're making which is directly related to the fact that Jesus DID NOT tell us to watch, He told ISRAEL to watch. You are not a member of Israel, glorydaz, you just aren't and none of the signs you are looking for can even possibly happen before God turns back again to Israel (Romans 11).

I am well aware that we are not Israel. Our Lord said many things to His apostles, for instance this in Mark where he is speaking of His second coming. When He says I have foretold you all things, do you think they were supposed to keep that to themselves?

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Of course not. His disciples spread the word about the false prophets and hard times ahead. This was no secret. Paul knew it, all of them did. Clearly, Paul knew the rapture would save us just before the flood came (metaphoricall), but he warned us to watch. I t has nothing to do with our being Israel.

Maybe the are and maybe they aren't. I remember like it was yesterday preachers on TBN making the exact same claim in the 1980s! Four decades ago!


It also doesn't mean that it is.


Said by some Christian somewhere probably every single day since 1948.


They've never had to turn, Glorydaz.

You would think we’d all be eagerly watching for signs of our Lord’s return. I‘m excited because I see the signs like never before. If you guys want to ignore them, I’m fine with that. Besides, Paul tells us to be watching as we see the day approach.

There was never any need for God to predestine anyone to hate Israel. All it took was for Abraham to have several sons, for God to choose Jacob over Esau and for God to grow nations from all of these half-brothers and rival twins. In short, all it took was for God to separate Israel from all it neighbors and single it out as His nation. Pride and jealousy did the rest. Which is not to say, by the way, that there is no spiritual aspect to why Israel is so hated, but merely that God isn't up there actively creating the Hitlers and Saddam Hussseins of the world.

I said nothing about God predestining anyone to hate Israel. nothing.

These signs you are suggesting have been "seen" by every generation of believers for the last 2000 years and they almost always have been making the same error that you're making which is directly related to the fact that Jesus DID NOT tell us to watch, He told ISRAEL to watch. You are not a member of Israel, glorydaz, you just aren't and none of the signs you are looking for can even possibly happen before God turns back again to Israel (Romans 11).


Maybe the are and maybe they aren't. I remember like it was yesterday preachers on TBN making the exact same claim in the 1980s! Four decades ago!


It also doesn't mean that it is.


Said by some Christian somewhere probably every single day since 1948.


They've never had to turn, Glorydaz.


There was never any need for God to predestine anyone to hate Israel. All it took was for Abraham to have several sons, for God to choose Jacob over Esau and for God to grow nations from all of these half-brothers and rival twins. In short, all it took was for God to separate Israel from all it neighbors and single it out as His nation. Pride and jealousy did the rest. Which is not to say, by the way, that there is no spiritual aspect to why Israel is so hated, but merely that God isn't up there actively creating the Hitlers and Saddam Hussseins of the world.

I don’t know why this post is there twice. I might have to stop trying to quote. Sorry guys.

 

[glorydaz]

It wasn't meant to offend.

I thought that you said that all nations would be against Israel.

No problem.
I do believe scripture teaches that all nations will turn against Israel.

 

[Right Divider]

No problem.
I do believe scripture teaches that all nations will turn against Israel.

I guess that you didn't understand the Biblical problem with that. That was the point that I was making. If all nations turn against Israel, then there are no sheep at that judgment... only goats.

Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ​

Please provide scripture to support your assertion.

 

[glorydaz]

I guess that you didn't understand the Biblical problem with that. That was the point that I was making. If all nations turn against Israel, then there are no sheep at that judgment... only goats.

Matt 25:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)​

(25:31) ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: (25:32) And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: (25:33) And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. ​

Please provide scripture to support your assertion.

Oh. I’d say all nations are made up of individuals, both sheep and goats. Look at the US for example. As a nation, we could turn on Israel, refusing them aid, for instance, but there are those who would still hide the Jews from detection.

 

[Clete]

I am well aware that we are not Israel. Our Lord said many things to His apostles, for instance this in Mark where he is speaking of His second coming. When He says I have foretold you all things, do you think they were supposed to keep that to themselves?

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. 24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

Of course not. His disciples spread the word about the false prophets and hard times ahead. This was no secret. Paul knew it, all of them did. Clearly, Paul knew the rapture would save us just before the flood came (metaphoricall), but he warned us to watch. It has nothing to do with our being Israel.

Why are you not citing the location of the passages you quote? This is the second time I've had to go look it up. Annoying!

Mark 13:22–24 is Christ telling the Twelve about things that will happen to Israel not to the whole world. "The elect" in verse 22 is Israel and the warning was about false prophets and false messiahs, both of which have no meaning outside of the nation of Israel. And, of course the Twelve didn't keep it secret. It wasn't intended to be a secret. They told their followers who were converted Jews who believed Jesus to be THE Messiah and so false messiah's popping up would be a good thing to keep an eye out for.

And while I agree that there are things that Paul speaks of in I & II Thessalonians, like being vigilant because Christ could come back at any moment and he speaks of a falling away and the revealing of the "man of sin", the problem is that these things basically cannot happen yet because there is no temple for the son of perdition to sit in and proclaim himself to be God.

More importantly, Paul's focus was far away from watching for signs and wonders. The Body of Christ isn't about miracles and signs which are of the flesh and therefore counter to faith. Signs were for Israel and will be again because their whole program was prophesied and is all about the fulfillment of prophesy.

You would think we’d all be eagerly watching for signs of our Lord’s return.

There are almost none of them to watch for and the scant few that exist cannot happen without there being temple worship is Jerusalem.

I‘m excited because I see the signs like never before. If you guys want to ignore them, I’m fine with that. Besides, Paul tells us to be watching as we see the day approach.

It isn't that anyone is ignoring them, per se. I'm not trying to get you to ignore anything but just to be sober minded about it and to acknowledge that you are by no means alone when it comes to believing that Christ's return is immanent. Your watching for signs has to be strongly tempered with the knowledge that you might be completely wrong about what it is you think you're seeing and that, if you are wrong, you're in good company with the likes of even the Apostle Paul himself.

Romans 13:11-12 (NKJV):
"And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand."

I said nothing about God predestining anyone to hate Israel. nothing.

Okay, I read that into your comments. My bad. No harm, no foul.

I don’t know why this post is there twice. I might have to stop trying to quote. Sorry guys.

It happens. No worries.

 

[glorydaz]

Why are you not citing the location of the passages you quote? This is the second time I've had to go look it up. Annoying!

Mark 13:22–24 is Christ telling the Twelve about things that will happen to Israel not to the whole world. "The elect" in verse 22 is Israel and the warning was about false prophets and false messiahs, both of which have no meaning outside of the nation of Israel. And, of course the Twelve didn't keep it secret. It wasn't intended to be a secret. They told their followers who were converted Jews who believed Jesus to be THE Messiah and so false messiah's popping up would be a good thing to keep an eye out for.

And while I agree that there are things that Paul speaks of in I & II Thessalonians, like being vigilant because Christ could come back at any moment and he speaks of a falling away and the revealing of the "man of sin", the problem is that these things basically cannot happen yet because there is no temple for the son of perdition to sit in and proclaim himself to be God.

More importantly, Paul's focus was far away from watching for signs and wonders. The Body of Christ isn't about miracles and signs which are of the flesh and therefore counter to faith. Signs were for Israel and will be again because their whole program was prophesied and is all about the fulfillment of prophesy.


There are almost none of them to watch for and the scant few that exist cannot happen without there being temple worship is Jerusalem.


It isn't that anyone is ignoring them, per se. I'm not trying to get you to ignore anything but just to be sober minded about it and to acknowledge that you are by no means alone when it comes to believing that Christ's return is immanent. Your watching for signs has to be strongly tempered with the knowledge that you might be completely wrong about what it is you think you're seeing and that, if you are wrong, you're in good company with the likes of even the Apostle Paul himself.

Romans 13:11-12 (NKJV):
"And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand."


Okay, I read that into your comments. My bad. No harm, no foul.


It happens. No worries.

I’m sorry when I leave out the location, but when I include it, it shows up big and bold. I should just give the verse and not try to copy the verse itself. Course then you’d have to look it up. I will work on that.

 

[Clete]

I’m sorry when I leave out the location, but when I include it, it shows up big and bold. I should just give the verse and not try to copy the verse itself. Course then you’d have to look it up. I will work on that.

When you paste something in, hit Ctrl, Shift, V and it will paste the raw text without the formatting.

And I'd rather have the verse without the location than the location without the text so if you're forced to choose, just keep doing it the way your doing it.

 

[glorydaz]

@ Clete

Yes, you say false prophets would be a good thing to watch out for, but this has nothing to do with signs and wonders. This has to do with things to watch out for during the last days. Things Jesus and Paul both warned of. We are not to discount Jesus’ warnings, because the signs will be the same. We just get to be snatched up before the last seven years (according to Daniel’s prophecy). Therefore, we can see how the stage is being set for the antichrist. The Jews have to be back in their land, and the fig tree will ripen. That is already in place.

 

[glorydaz]

When you paste something in, hit Ctrl, Shift, V and it will paste the raw text without the formatting.

And I'd rather have the verse without the location than the location without the text so if you're forced to choose, just keep doing it the way your doing it.

I’m on an IPad and I’m a dunce when it comes to this. I don’t think I have a control button. Look out……

 

[Right Divider]

@ Clete

You need to leave out the space after the @ sign to get a personal reference.

Like this: @Clete

 

[Clete]

@ Clete

Yes, you say false prophets would be a good thing to watch out for, but this has nothing to do with signs and wonders. This has to do with things to watch out for during the last days. Things Jesus and Paul both warned of. We are not to discount Jesus’ warnings, because the signs will be the same. We just get to be snatched up before the last seven years (according to Daniel’s prophecy). Therefore, we can see how the stage is being set for the antichrist. The Jews have to be back in their land, and the fig tree will ripen. That is already in place.

Jesus' warning was to the Twelve, not us. The planned timing was for Christ to return quickly, not thousands of years later. Israel failed to accept their risen Messiah and so God cut off Israel, stopping their prophesied program. Eventually, He will return to Israel and start that prophetic clock running again but right now it's all on hold and there isn't anything left to be fulfilled other than the rapture and a few indications given by the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians, none of which can come to pass without temple worship taking place and the rapture doesn't even have to wait for that to happen (i.e Christ's return and the rapture are not the same event) and so we could all be gone before a single additional prophesy is fulfilled.

Now, it's very true that Israel has to exist as a nation for there to be a temple at all, much less temple worship happening in Jerusalem, and so the fact that they have their country again isn't insignificant but that isn't the point. That political entity can exist for centuries without creating a single problem for any biblical prophecy. Maybe it will all start happening next week or next year but the point is that it doesn't have to and there isn't anything happening today that makes it certain that it is all just about to take place. It would be nice, but its not anything we should be dogmatic about or get our hopes built up too high in anticipation of.

 

[Clete]

I’m on an IPad and I’m a dunce when it comes to this. I don’t think I have a control button. Look out……

Apple stuff is crap when it comes to things like that. I have no idea how to paste without the formatting on any iOS product. Chat GPT will know. Chat GPT knows everything! Ask him (it?).

 

[JudgeRightly]

I’m on an IPad and I’m a dunce when it comes to this. I don’t think I have a control button. Look out……

Long press is usually the answer.

Not sure they have an option to paste as plain text though.

I just use a bluetooth keyboard for typing. Then I don't have to worry about such things.

 

[Right Divider]

Jesus' warning was to the Twelve, not us. The planned timing was for Christ to return quickly, not thousands of years later.

Yes!

Matt 10:23 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:23) But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come. ​

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus' warning was to the Twelve, not us. The planned timing was for Christ to return quickly, not thousands of years later. Israel failed to accept their risen Messiah and so God cut off Israel, stopping their prophesied program. Eventually, He will return to Israel and start that prophetic clock running again but right now it's all on hold and there isn't anything left to be fulfilled other than the rapture and a few indications given by the Apostle Paul in his letter to the Thessalonians, none of which can come to pass without temple worship taking place and the rapture doesn't even have to wait for that to happen (i.e Christ's return and the rapture are not the same event) and so we could all be gone before a single additional prophesy is fulfilled.

We will all see the signs, before the Antichrist is revealed. Jesus gave his followers signs to watch out for, and Paul gave his followers signs and according to the prophet, Daniel, there will be the Antichrist declaring peace and safety for 3 1/2 years, and then he will break the peace and declare himself Christ….demanding worship. We will leave just prior to that. The restrainer is removed and then it all begins. Our leaving will be the start of the Great Tribulation.

Now, it's very true that Israel has to exist as a nation for there to be a temple at all, much less temple worship happening in Jerusalem, and so the fact that they have their country again isn't insignificant but that isn't the point. That political entity can exist for centuries without creating a single problem for any biblical prophecy. Maybe it will all start happening next week or next year but the point is that it doesn't have to and there isn't anything happening today that makes it certain that it is all just about to take place. It would be nice, but its not anything we should be dogmatic about or get our hopes built up too high in anticipation of.

I will go back to the generation that sees the fig tree bloom will not pass a way until all be fulfilled. That generation born in 1948 when Israel became that nation born in a day.

 

[glorydaz]

Long press is usually the answer.

Not sure they have an option to paste as plain text though.

I just use a bluetooth keyboard for typing. Then I don't have to worry about such things.

I used to have a laptop, but I’ve moved into our old log cabin in the woods and we’re off grid with just solar power. I have one of those mobile hotspots, so that’s cool. I’ll keep working on it, though. thanks