SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
How much obedience? And obedience to what?
70% was passing when I was in school.
This is the question that is never answered. How much obedience is acceptable, since no one is 100% obedient?
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
- Thread starter SimpleMan77
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How much obedience? And obedience to what?
70% was passing when I was in school.
This is the question that is never answered. How much obedience is acceptable, since no one is 100% obedient?
Obey Deuteronomy, Leviticus!!! No?........
Heretic.
So there.Hypocritical fraud.
I just posted one!
How much more explicit do you need it to be? How much more explicit can it be?
Romans 4: 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works
David was saved under the Law. Had he stopped obeying it, he would have stopped being in covenant relationship with God. (see Luke 9:62; 2 Peter 2:20-22; and elsewhere)
Moses, Jesus, the Twelve Apostles, James, etc. all agree with you.
Paul (and only Paul) directly contradicts you.
Resting in Him,
Clete
False Prophet
New member
Mad bullies people to try to get them to stop drinking. Mothers Against Drunk Driving
How much obedience? 76%? 76.87%? 77%? 98%? 99%? 99.999999999999999999999999%?
Specifics.....Eternal destinies are at stake.
A Muslim, atheist can exhibit obedience. And?
Unpack it for us, simpletonian. Do be a dear. Set us MAD wacko's straight, so that we can be as clean a dirty rat, as you.
SimpleMan77
New member
Actually Paul doesn't. He's the one who said that vengeance is coming on those who "obey not the Gospel".
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Peter and Paul agree. It takes obedience.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Pretty simple actually. Obey all you know, and if you fail, ask God for forgiveness, get up, and go again.
If you get satisfied with sin in your life, and don't repent if it, you'll not be saved.
If you do your best, and repent when you see you've done wrong, the righteousness of Jesus will continue to cover you. When God looks at you he'll see Jesus.
No, I'm not nearly perfect, and neither is anyone else. Paul said, in Philippians 3:15,16 that perfection, in God's eyes, is striving every day for the likeness of Jesus.
Being comfortable short of that would be like Abraham coming out of his native land a few miles and setting up camp to stay. As long as he kept following God, God imputed faith for righteousness. If, at any time he would have said "this is as far as I go", God would have found a different "father of many nations".
The thing is, you know this is true. Everyone on this forum knows it's true.
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As the Mayor, the honorable STP, and I, asked-how much obedience? Pretty simple question.
So there.
Did our hero address his own "argument," and answer:
How much obedience?
Repent of what?
Not a peep.
"If you do your best, and repent when you see you've done wrong, the righteousness of Jesus will continue to cover you. When God looks at you he'll see Jesus."-you
Your best, you muse? Wrong standard.
The Lord Jesus Christ died, simpletonian, because our/your "best" is not acceptable-He died for our sins, because we "come short" of the standard required to be in His holy presence....Memorize:
The righteousness of God.
99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% and you are still headed for hell.
Tell us, on record, that you have "repented of your all of your sins." = stopped sinning.
Go ahead.
An honest man/woman admits he/she has not, cannot.
A lost person, says they can. You talk like the lost. They talk like you.
Get saved.
SimpleMan77
New member
Like I said, obey all you know.
If you want to look at Paul's instructions, Jesus's teachings, etc, and say "I know he said to do that, but I'm not going to obey", go ahead.
I'd beg you not to, but it's you who'll have to defend that decision to God on judgement day.
As for me, I'll obey everything I see Paul, Jesus, etc, teaching, and trust His blood and grace to cover my mistakes.
God's grace is so simple and beautiful
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Now you're changing the subject.
In this new meaning, obedience to Paul's gospel would include not allowing yourself to be placed under the law, not preaching a works based salvation, and fully accepting the notion that eternal life is granted by grace alone through faith plus nothing.
As predicted. Not an inch.
SimpleMan77
New member
What is God going to tell you at judgement if you say "I believed, but I ignored all of Paul's other instructions"?
Paul should have condensed his books down to about 20 verses, and thrown all his other instructions away.
All that matters is believing and making sure you don't do anything that could be confused with obeying God, lest you try to earn your salvation.
Forget that he said to obey rulers. Forget that he said to obey parents. Forget that he said to love your wives.
Will those things, outside of faith save you? 10,000 times no.
If you stand before God as someone who chose to keep beating your wife, breaking the law, and disobeying your parents (as examples of Paul's commandments), and say "God, you have to save me because I believed"...
You tell me what God will say.
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SimpleMan77
New member
Is M.A.D. a dangerous heresy? It demands much scripture to be ignored
The next verse explains it.
Galatians 2:8
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
It was what he was called to, similar to if God called me today to evangelize the Hispanic community in the US, and anointed me especially to reach them.
In that meeting (Acts 15) a few things are important to note.
Paul said that he approached the meeting knowing that, if the Apostles didn't approve of what he had been preaching, his race had been run in vain up to that point.
Paul said that the Apostles didn't add anything to him, but agreed with what he was preaching 100%.
In the meeting, Peter said that God had first used him to preach "purification by faith" to the Gentiles, and concluded that was identical to what Paul was preaching.
The Apostles weren't the ones preaching that the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses - that was converted Pharisees.
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The next verse explains it.
Galatians 2:8
(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
It was what he was called to, similar to if God called me today to evangelize the Hispanic community in the US, and anointed me especially to reach them.
In that meeting (Acts 15) a few things are important to note.
Paul said that he approached the meeting knowing that, if the Apostles didn't approve of what he had been preaching, his race had been run in vain up to that point.
Paul said that the Apostles didn't add anything to him, but agreed with what he was preaching 100%.
In the meeting, Peter said that God had first used him to preach "purification by faith" to the Gentiles, and concluded that was identical to what Paul was preaching.
The Apostles weren't the ones preaching that the Gentiles had to keep the law of Moses - that was converted Pharisees.
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Just because you're saved doesn't mean it's okay to sin or to avoid doing rightly. The difference is that the Law made the one (i.e. salvation) requisite to the other (i.e. doing rightly). With Paul, however, the fear of death that the Law imposed has been replaced with the law of Love in which there is no fear of death for we are identified in Christ who is righteous and we are therefore righteous in Him and cannot be otherwise.
Notice also that your objections are all based in the flesh. What we do or do not do. Paul addresses this issue directly...
Romans 7: 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul also directly answers your objection as asked...
1 Corinthians 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Well said, Brother.
Good post Brother.
SimpleMan77
New member
So your "ignore list" doesn't include staying off my thread?
Welcome, I don't have a problem with it. This is a forum for discussion and debate, so it's welcome to all, especially those who don't agree with me.
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People fear what they don't understand. The OP is ignorant of MAD and its ability to be used as a "Tool for Understanding the Scriptures."