Why would you reject either?
Is it true that after you have studied Torah you know you are not a prophet?
- Thread starter Jacob
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TweetyBird
New member
Why do you reject the finished work of Christ on the cross?
TweetyBird
New member
I never rejected "Torah". Those are your words. You neglect to see the purpose for "Torah" is over with, done, finis. I am not under that covenant. I am in Jesus Christ, the new covenant. The old covenant aka "Torah" passed away. The only way to be obedient to "Torah" is to sacrifice animals for a number of reasons - forgiveness/atonement for sin, ritual cleansings, feasts, Sabbaths and other parts of life. Without that sacrificial system, you CANNOT keep, obey, serve, be justified or found righteous through any part of "Torah". That is why the finished work of Christ is superior to, took care of completely, satisfied totally, ALL of the Mosaic Law Covenant. Those in Christ are living in His covenant - His forgiveness, His atonement, His justification, His sanctification, His righteousness that came by and through His shed blood once and for all. He is EVERYTHING, PRE-EMINENT. We are to lift HIM up. Worship Him. Love Him. Honor Him. Obey Him. "Torah" has ceased to function" - its job is completed, finished, waxed old forever.
ttruscott
Well-known member
Worked for me...
TweetyBird
New member
Because Jesus died for you, not Torah.
Jesus gives life, not Torah.
We are the righteousness of God in Christ, Torah cannot do this.
We are sanctified in Christ Jesus, Torah cannot do this.
We are justified in Christ Jesus, Torah cannot do this.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, Torah cannot do this.
Jesus forgives all sins, once and for all, Torah cannot do this.
Jesus said to take up one's cross and follow Him - not take up Torah.
You have elevated Torah above Jesus and will be judged by it on the day of Judgment.
Jesus observed and taught the Torah.
TweetyBird
New member
Jesus did not teach "Torah". There 613 commandments. Please show where Jesus taught all those commandments. Jesus actually taught AGAINST them on a number of occasions. And He was definitely NOT Torah observant. He died for the sins of mankind and that is prohibited in Torah. You don't know it very well at all, do you?
Jesus never taught against the torah, He taught against the pharisees oral laws, not the same thing.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18
Correct!
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
However, in this dispensation of grace we are not under the law....as I am aware that you know.
yes, as believers we are not, the law still serves to teach what sin is and declare mankind guilty and shows the need of Christ as Savior. My objection is and will always be to those who falsely claim the law is no longer in effect or that Jesus walked outside of it in any way.
TweetyBird
New member
He fulfilled all the Law, satisfied it, nailed it to the cross, made a new way, shed His blood for us which is the new covenant, gave us new commandments, told us to pick up our cross. That is not Torah - no way, no how.
TweetyBird
New member
Why did Jesus then spend the rest of Matt 23 cutting them apart and telling people to ignore what they taught? And told them their proselytes are twice as bent for hell as they are? Snipping verse 1 out of context does not prove your point, it proves you don't understand the message that Jesus taught.
Jesus did not keep Torah. He may have honored it as it was still in effect for His people, but He was not an advocate for it at all. What Jesus taught cannot be found in Torah. He taught something other than Torah in order to show people that it's time was limited and would soon pass away, just like the heavens and earth are going to pass away because He fulfilled all of it on the cross. The NT clearly shows this, over and over again. Torah is meaningless to a believer in Christ other than as a shadow of what was to come in Christ. No one can keep it. It's full of 613 laws and commandments intended for an ancient people who sacrificed animals for their sins and were required ritual cleansings for impurities pertaining to many activities of every day life. If you choose to follow it, you will be judged by it, not through the blood of Christ.
TweetyBird
New member
The Law cannot teach believers what is sin and what is not sin. You are mistaken. The greatest sin of all is not to believe on Jesus Christ, and to not have faith in God. That's not in Torah. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin.
You are incorrect. I suggest that you start with Matthew 5:17-20 NASB.
Shalom.
Jacob
TweetyBird
New member
Matt 5:17-20 states that it must be FULFILLED. Jesus fulfilled it, every jot and tittle.
Why is it that you all quote Matt 5? What did Luke say?
Luke 16:17
And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Jesus took the Law to the cross - He satisfied it, completed it, rendered it finished. On the cross, He said "IT IS FINISHED" and the veil of the Temple was rent in two. The ark of the covenant is gone. The Law is still just a shadow and a veil over the eyes. It cannot shed light on Christ. Jesus is the Light, not Torah. His Law is the way to live, not Torah. Those 613 no longer hold anyone in bondage. We have been set free from it in Christ Jesus to live by faith and guided by His Holy Spirit. In Matt 25, Jesus stated what He is looking from when He comes to earth on the clouds of glory >>> how we treat others, not that we kept Torah.
1 John 3
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
TweetyBird
New member
Why don't you do what I asked? Provide all those verses where Jesus is teaching all "613" laws, statutes, and commandments of the old covenant?