Is it "persecution" when you go out of your way to make it happen?

[Lon]

Funny how they didn't say that on their website, and instead directly cited having to pay the fine as a reason to donate. But that's just a coincidence, right?

:nono: It was NOT mentioned 'to pay the fine.'

Except their website doesn't say anything about using the money to keep the case in court. But it does cite the fine. Huh. :think:

I'm not this nitpicky, but you are making a case that they are misusing funds. You can't do that 'by inference.' Both you and the labor arbiter seem to be doing exactly that.

And they should be prepared to face the consequences of that decision, correct? They have the money to pay it.

Their lawyer advised them not to. We usually follow the advice of lawyers in all matters legal.

That doesn't make sense. They set up a funding website that specifically cites the fine as a reason to donate money.

:nono: Be informed

They raised over 3 times the amount of the fine. But now they're refusing to pay it.

I'm not really wanting to get into it with you here. I'm trying to get you to reread for comprehension. I don't really see a need for the back and forth since my initial post at this point.

 

[musterion]

Q. If Jose Fly starts yet another thread with a terminally weak premise, do other TOL members still notice?

A. Yes.

 

[Jose Fly]

:nono: It was NOT mentioned 'to pay the fine.'

In the plea for money, it says "If they are forced to pay the damages to the lesbian couple they will be in much worse shape than they are now." That speaks for itself.

I'm not this nitpicky, but you are making a case that they are misusing funds. You can't do that 'by inference.' Both you and the labor arbiter seem to be doing exactly that.

I'm not saying it's a crime for them to use the $500,000 they raised as they wish. They can use it to buy a new house if they want. I'm saying it was misleading of them to say the above in their plea for money, but then refuse to use that money to pay the fine.

Their lawyer advised them not to. We usually follow the advice of lawyers in all matters legal.

Well, so far their lawyer has done nothing but lose in court. Maybe it's time they get a new one.

 

[Jose Fly]

And let's look at the larger context. After the Commissioner's ruling and fine, the Klein's posted the following to their Facebook page...

We just found out that the judge has made his decision, he is ordering that we pay $135,000 in emotional damages. This money will not come from the business, but instead would have to be paid from money that should be going to pay for food and housing for us and our 5 children. Brad Avakian has not had his final word on it and it may be increased. This amount will financially ruin us. Our government was put in place to protect the people not to punish people because of their faith. We have had many people ask to help, someone kindly set up a go fund me for us. Thank you to all who are willing to fight for religious freedom. God bless

Then, after Gofundme shut down the Klein's funding page on their site, Franklin Graham (son of Billy Graham) set up a page at Samaritan's Purse, stating, "Samaritan's Purse is raising funds to help the Kleins pay their fine and meet other expenses. "

Should be pretty clear to all but the most tribal.

 

[Jose Fly]

UPDATE: Sweet Cakes owners pay damages

The Oregon bakery owners who ignited a national controversy by refusing to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple on Monday quietly paid a state-ordered $135,000 damages award and then some.

Aaron Klein, co-owner of the shuttered Sweet Cakes by Melissa, walked into the Oregon Bureau of Labor and Industries' Portland office and handed over a check for $136,927.07, an amount including accrued interest, agency spokesman Charlie Burr said.

Earlier this month, the labor bureau recovered nearly $7,000 additional funds from the Kleins with the help of the state Department of Justice and a private collections agency, Burr said. The money came from a garnished bank account, he said.

Aaron and Melissa Klein had refused to pay damages of $135,000 to Rachel and Laurel Bowman-Cryer, claiming financial hardship despite three online fundraising accounts set up by supporters that netted them at least $515,000 as of late September.

 

[Zeke]

Remember the Kleins, the Christian owners of the bakery in Oregon who were found guilty of illegally discriminating against a same sex couple and fined $135,000? Well....

Sweet Cakes owners who refused to make same-sex wedding cake now refuse to pay $135,000 damages


Now, before anyone argues that they can't pay the fine or that it would be an undue hardship on them...



So they raised more than three times the amount of the fine, which means they can't say they don't have the money, or that paying the fine would be a hardship. When asked, neither they nor their lawyers will give a reason. Now the state of Oregon is taking steps to place liens on their property and other assets, which I'm sure will generate cries of "persecution".

Thus my question...is it really persecution when you deliberately go out of your way to cause it? I don't think so.

And one other question: Does this mean the Kleins lied to the people who donated money?

Don't worry the Lawyers will take care of that problem, That small amount won't last long with those parasites involved in this sitcom.