Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Seventh Day Adventist.
Is It Actually A Correct Concept For Anyone To Earn Their Way Into God's Favor.
- Thread starter Jenkins
- Start date
TOL is a mainline Christian board. Just because it doesn't hold to the beliefs you consider correct doesn't make it heretical.
I use the NKJV. If you have a problem with that, then that's on you.
The tags under my name have nothing to do with my theology.
Start a new thread.
Ad hominem insults won't fly here.
Supra.
Nope.
Supra.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
There are multiple churches in the Bible.
Start a new thread.
Stomping your foot and demanding that I do indeed obey the Law doesn't make it so.
Again with the ad hominem. I recommend reading our rules.
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Old Hat
Member
It doesn't matter what version you use. And, for the record, I'm very familiar with the NKJV and it teaches exactly what I am presenting.
No need. Already proved my position with Scripture.
The Bible says it. That makes it so.
There is only one THE Church of Christ mentioned in the Bible.
(Matthew 16:18)
No need. I proved my position with Scripture.
Stubbornly denying Scripture doesn't make it disappear from the Bible.
Unless you commit any of the sins I listed, you do not break those particular Commandments. Therefore you obey them. Simple logic.
It's not an ad hominem attack to describe someone as being a hypocrite if you have already made the case that they are acting in a hypocritical way.
But, due to the way you interact here, stubbornly refusing correction and flat denying Scripture that is presented to the contrary of your claims, it is clear that I shouldn't interact with you.
It's a waste of my time and I can't tolerate dishonesty for the sheer sake of refusing to admit when you're wrong.
Matt. 5:19 - The Kingdom is not on Earth yet. However, after Salvation has been received through the Lord Jesus, additional favor may still be earned. Look at Anna and Simeon in the Temple who earned the privilage of living until Baby Jesus came.
Matt. 23:1-3 - The Pharisees were not dealing with people saved through faith in Jesus. Therefore, they could not earn actual Blessing. Irrelevant passage.
John 14:15 - Jesus was not referring to attaining Salvation, but to Fellowship with Him after Salvation. That is exactly what I am pointing out in this thread.
John 14:21 & 15:10 & 15:14 - Again shows earning favor after being Saved.
1 John 2:6 & 3:4, Eccl. 12:14, Rev. 14:12 - Not relevant here, none of these speak of earning favor. Why cite?
Perhaps you might think a little more carefully before trotting out a bunch of verses like these which do not relate to the issue at hand.
Just as a Carnal Christian will be corrected and chastised by God, even to the point of physical death, so shall an Obedient Christian gain much favor and blessing while on Earth. That is what walking in the Light is all about.
Then don't make ridiculous claims such as "Your personal version of the Bible is so grossly inept".
Good for you.
No, it doesn't. No Bible does.
Yes, if you are going to insist on changing the subject to something that is not related to the topic of this thread, you need to start a new thread. That's how this forum (and most others) works.
I'm more than happy to discuss other topics with you, but not in this thread.
Asserting your position and posting some scripture verses does not qualify as "proving one's position," especially since I have made counter-arguments to your claims.
No, the Bible says something, but you've ripped it out of context and made it say what you want it to say to fit your beliefs.
Nope. There are at least two.
The one you just mentioned, and the Body of Christ.
But this needs its own thread.
Supra.
Of course not.
But your claims are not founded in scripture. They use scripture, sure, but they ignore the context. Huge difference.
Nope. "Not breaking a particular commandment" does not equate to "placing myself under the law."
Which you haven't done.
You have yet to show me that I'm wrong. Instead, so far, you've used at least 3 fallacious arguments against my position. Me? Zero.
Not once have I denied any scripture.
There are no scriptures contrary to my claims, because my paradigm of beliefs takes into account apparent contradictions between passages (such as between Romans 4:5 and James 2:24) that cannot simply be reconciled by saying they mean the same thing when in fact, they mean the exact opposite.
I'm not saying my position is unfalsifiable, I'm saying that you're going to have to put in a lot more work to falsify my beliefs than just quote a few scripture verses that seem to support your beliefs.
Iron sharpens iron. Try sharpening your blade here.
I can't force you to interact with me.
But if you're going to interact with me (and this board, for that matter), you're going to need to grow thicker skin for regular interactions.
Not once have I been dishonest with you.
You have yet to show me that I'm wrong. But you won't be able to if you refuse to engage, so...
Up to you, I guess.
Old Hat
Member
On the contrary, I answered your thread title in my post with this statement: "Yes, we are required to obey; and yes, obeying the 10 Commandments does put us in alignment with God and His Favor."
I followed it up with many verses to make my case.
The kingdom IS here now and will be turned over to the Father upon Jesus' return just exactly as Scripture says it will.
"... they that are Christ's at His coming. Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."
(1 Corinthians 15:24)
Perhaps you might think a little more carefully before speaking as an expert on any Biblical concept when your grasp of Scripture is sub-par.
Old Hat
Member
Your version of what the Bible teaches, your doctrinal structure, is what is grossly inept.
How would you know if any Bible teaches what I'm presenting? You must first have an accurate grasp of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation. You clearly don't. Your expertise is in "taught traditions of men."
I have presented the Truth from Scripture to prove my position. No need for 100 pages of discussion on that particular topic.
It does if the person you are discussing with is honest.
Context is the battle cry of the modern mainstream teachers of False Doctrine. The Bible is plain in what it teaches.
See above.
Straw Man. You're the only one speaking of being under law. If you drive under a posted speed limit, you are obeying that law whether you like it or not. If you drive over said limit, you are breaking that law ... like it or not.
Not once, but many times now.
There's no point in all that work. This aint my first rodeo. I could show you 100 verses to prove that the Bible disagrees with your positions and you would shuck off each and every one with some nonsensical objection and twisting of God's Word.
You can't sharpen iron that is unwilling to be sharpened. God says the man who is unwilling to be corrected is a fool. Correct me with plain Scripture and I rejoice. Throw up nonsensical dodgy objections to The Word that is presented to you and reveal your true colors.
Thick skin has nothing to do with it. Nobody's hurting my feelings. Corruption is easily detected when you've been at this game for over a decade. There are a very few individuals here running things. Those individuals operate under multiple User Names. It is not at all difficult to tell who you are interacting with once you've had a few exchanges, especially when there is not the slightest consideration for what I am presenting. Only immediate denial and challenging of any and all information presented. Your purpose here is not to discuss Scripture - it is to push agenda. Period.
Not once, but many times now.
Showing you you're wrong and somehow forcing you to admit it are two different things. I have no interest in the latter.
Saying it doesn't make it so.
This ain't my first rodeo with a new member on TOL, Hat.
You're the typical "God doesn't change, the Body of Christ is spiritual Israel" believer. We've had plenty of those.
Your arguments are not new, so simply quoting a verse or two in support of your position won't cut it.
TOL has been around since the early 2000's. If you're going to stick around, you should step up your game.
I completely agree!
We've hardly interacted on TOL since you joined. You can't know that yet.
Nope. What my expertise in is truck driving.
I just debate on here in my free time.
You've presented prooftexts to support your position.
Prooftexts that I and several other people on TOL are familiar with.
Which is why I recommend just browsing through some of the thousands of pages that have already been there done that.
If you think you have a new argument to make, then make it, and support it. Otherwise, there's nothing new under the sun.
I have not been dishonest at all here.
And yet, context is why we know that "[Judas] went away and hanged himself" and "Go and do likewise" (both of those phrases are verses in scripture) are not a command to anyone ever, because suicide is a sin.
Yes it is. So take your blinders off and be willing to learn.
My answer is contained within 1 Corinthians 6-9.
QUOTE ME.
There is. It's edification of the mind.
Nor is this mine, as I said above.
You want to convince me you're right, then you need to put in more effort than quoting a few bible verses and saying I'm wrong.
Or, you could provide an explanation as to how those verses support your position, to which I will respond with my arguments that use those same scriptures for my position, while also quoting other verses to support my position.
I certainly think that's more valuable.
Here I am, telling you that I'm willing to be convinced.
INDEED!
The same applies to me!
Why would I make nonsensical arguments?
Instead of automatically assuming that you're right, try being willing to listen, and I will make every effort to do the same.
Then why are you acting so defensive?
Maybe it's not corruption you're detecting? Have you considered that one witness is not enough to determine a matter. That's God's standard, by the way. You're just one person, maybe your perspective isn't enough?
Yup. TOL isn't as busy as it used to be 15 years ago, sadly.
No one here is operating sock accounts. Sock accounts get banned.
You're right. There's only one other user I know of who thinks that TOL is run by only a few people who operate many sock accounts. It ain't you? Good. Then don't make the same accusation against the rest of TOL's users.
I told you that if you want to make an argument that isn't on topic to this thread, to make a new thread, and talk about it there. And I've even stated that I would be more than happy to engage you on whatever subject it is.
Don't be a troll.
Again, you aren't the first person to make assertions on TOL.
Here's a bit of advice: Assertions made without evidence can and will be dismissed without evidence.
Yes, that's what this forum is about. Challenging others' ideas.
As I said: Iron sharpening iron.
Yes, it is.
False. Period.
QUOTE. ME.
I am more than happy to admit when I am wrong.
You haven't shown me to be wrong yet though. Haven't even tried.
Get to it!
Old Hat
Member
There's no reason for me to do anything differently, or with more energy or enthusiasm. It's God's game and it's His Truth. His Word speaks for itself. You either hear/see it or you don't.
And yet I do.
At least you admit it's not in the Bible.
Just because others agree with your position, doesn't mean it's accurate. The majority of Christendom could agree with you and you could still be wrong with God. And, you're right, that's likely the case.
Convincing you isn't important, and being right doesn't do anything for me; it's speaking the Truth of God's Word and informing those who are capable of being informed, and awakening those who God chooses to awaken, that really matters. I am not often given the privilege of knowing when that happens, but God is keeping track for me; and it's His record that matters.
If plain, pure, Scripture doesn't convince you, you're not capable of being convinced.
"... If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:31)
I don't have to assume anything. God is right. I'm speaking HIS Words. What you're up against in denying Scripture is unimaginably larger and more significant than your wildest dreams (or nightmares).
It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. (Heb. 10:31)
On the contrary, those who speak Truth to power for the Lord God Almighty are accompanied by armies the likes of which you cannot imagine.
"The angel (plural) of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them."
(Psalm 34:7)
"Lord, I pray Thee, open his eyes, that he may see. ... and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about..." (2 Kings 6:17)
And The Word is the only Witness I need.
Sure.
Yet you aren't going to get very far on TOL if you're not even willing to consider that you might be wrong about some things.
That's debatable.
Just because it's not in the Bible doesn't mean I can't defend my beliefs.
Who said they agreed with me?
I was just stating that you aren't the first one to show up on TOL with your particular beliefs.
Yup. We agree.
I'm glad you at least recognize the possibility.
We're making progress!
Truth matters, and ideas have consequences.
If your ideas are false, and you present them as truth, you only harm yourself and those you present them to, either here on TOL or elsewhere.
As above, if what you present as "the Truth of God's Word," as you call it, is wrong, or in any way incorrect, to that extent, it only brings about confusion.
You sound like a Calvinist.
Fluff that hardly means anything here.
Or, I've already been convinced by something far more convincing, like, say, the entire context of the Bible.
Which is why it's important to preach Moses and the prophets, so to speak, and not our personal interpretation of the scriptures concerning them.
That's what you're doing.
We agree. Let's conform to what HE says.
No, you're not. What you're doing is repeating what you've been taught to say.
Begging the question is a logical fallacy. Don't do that.
I'm not denying any scripture, else you'd be able to quote me doing so.
We agree!
Agreed!
AMEN!
Not quite. See, this is what I'm talking about, ripping scripture out of it's context.
Agreed.
Jesus delivering up the Kingdom takes place after Daniel's 70th. Week of Tribulation after The Beast, Prophet, and Satan are tossed into Hell. Then the Kingdom will be inflate for the 1000 Year Dispensation.
Christ is not today ruling with His Rod of Iron, as many cults try to imagine. He will layer on. It is wise of you to seek knowledge thru God's Word which applies to this topic, rather than random verses unrelated.
Idolater
"Matthew 16:18-19" Dispensationalist (Catholic) χρ
Bump
What was the Professional Plan in 1844? Something good? They have no answer but that Jesus is now for some reason "cleansing the Temple in Heaven," as if God allowed the Temple in Heaven to become dirty.
Lol.