Nice dodge, elf the coward.Ashamed, aren't you, old geezer.....? Yes.....
Is Calvinism Wrong?
- Thread starter Robert Pate
- Start date
Nice dodge, elf the coward.Ashamed, aren't you, old geezer.....? Yes.....
...
Last edited:
How long did it take you to GOOG that, elf? Post some more fluff, since all your friends(1) on TOL can see....Please?
...
Last edited:
...
Last edited:
'Old GM's fluff pos-reps'
I corrected it for you. The pos reps are because they enjoy your fluff, find you amusing, but quite harmless, old geezer.
How many friends did you say you have, and how many visitors to your clown page?
Poor elf.
This is not...
You're drunk, aren't you, elf? Put down the "Ripple."
My Testimony.
I was saved at the age of 34. I turned on the TV, Bill Graham was giving the alter call, all I heard was "That thy blood was shed for thee" The Holy Spirit fell on me like a ton of bricks. I was convicted of all of the years that I had rejected Christ. I started sobbing like a baby. My wife came in to see what was wrong with me. I couldn't talk.
Later I joined a Baptist church and became the minister of the children's church. I would teach about 50 children every Sunday about Jesus on the felt board. I was also very active in the bus ministry. We would go out on Saturdays door to door and invite children to ride the bus to church.
I wanted to be a good witness for Christ so I joined "Christians in Action" Christians in Action is an evangelical organization that did street witnessing. We would meet once a week and go out on the streets of Los Angeles and do street witnessing. We would stop people and talk to them about their relationship with Jesus. It was a wonderful experience. I have witnessed to hundreds, maybe thousands on a one to one basis.
I have also taught adult Sunday School classes as well as children's classes. A few years ago I wrote a book called "The Apostles Doctrine" I do not sell the books, instead I donate the books to people that advertise them on the internet. Amazon carries my book if you want one.
Sure, old man. Name the time, place. PM, and I will even give you my #, so we can talk, man to elf.
Read my testimony John W. and then tell me that I am a devil.
No, here is your testimony, about what you assert is "sound doctrine:"
1. Vicarious law keeping- a perversion of the gospel of Christ.
2. "Jesus"(since you disrespect Him) did not die for our sins.
Devil child Pate asserts, on record, that the Saviour did not die for our sin debt/IOU, paying our debt, in our place, as the solution, and, instead, asserts, on record, that this "Jesus" is an incompetent, impotent fool,UNABLE TO DIE FOR ALL OF OUR SINS, future sins, as is God the Father, for even sending Him to die, as devil child Pate's "solution" to the sin/sins problem, is to eliminate the law that defines the sin/transgression, thus, "presto," there is no offense/transgression/sin for which to die, instead of the Saviour dying for our future sin debt. Do you all "get that," TOL audience? That, in simple terms, is this satanist "argument," breaking it down. Again, Pate asserts that the solution to the sin/sins issue, is not that the Saviour died for our sin debt in the future, which is contrary to us, for breaking the LORD God's perfect,good, holy,just, spiritual law, and a reflection of His character to both the saved and lost, and not that we are the problem, but the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not spiritual, as laws against murder, rape, lying, stealing......are all contrary to us, so, instead of the Saviour dying in our place, to satisfy the debt/IOU, abolish the law, so that there is no offense/transgression/sin for which He should die, and thus abolish the Saviour's work, as Pate asserts that the Saviour DID NOT DIE FOR OUR FUTURE SINS, SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DIE, for our future sins/sin debt. Thus, Pate asserts he died in vain, for nothing, as his "solution" is to abolish/eliminate/destroy/make void the law, so that there is no future sin/transgression/offense, and associated/corresponding wage/sin debt to be paid for.
Again-Pate-Christ died in vain.
Mayor STP:"It's not that complicated."
Pate argues that the solution to the sins issue, is not Christ dying for our sins, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, to blot out/wipe out/pay for the sin debt, both past/future, "man's IOU" for breaking the good, holy, spiritual law of God, per Paul, in Romans 7, which Paul asserts is not void, as the problem is not with man, but with the God's law, as he asserts that it is not perfect, it is not good, it is not holy, it is not just, it is not spiritual, as it is the law, that is contrary/against us, according to Pate, those troublesome prohibitions against murder, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery, lying......and not the sin debt/IOU that is contrary to/against us; Again, Pate denies that the sin debt/IOU is contrary/ against us, as He asserts that God's laws against murder, lying, rape, sodomy, theft, adultery,......................................are contrary/against us, are not for our benefit, are not good, not holy, not spiritual; His "solution" is for the LORD God to destroy/abolish/make void the law, so there is no offense to break, in the future, not Christ dying for our sins, He paying the debt/IOU for us, in our place.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
Delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not prefect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
The "secular" example of Pate's "reasoning::
Pate gets a speeding ticket. He goes to court, and, in front of the judge...
Pate:Judge, I demand that you abolish/destroy the law against speeding. It is not a good law, because I/others cannot keep it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!This law is not for my benefit, or society's-it is contrary to/against me/society!!!!!!!!!! Abolish it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And, if you do not abolish it, it automatically condemns me, judges me, as guilty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The judge: No, the laws are good, and are for everyone's benefit, including yours. They are not against you, are not contrary to you, they are not against society, they are not contrary to society, -they stand. The problem is with you/others breaking these good laws, and the debt you/others must pay for these offenses(sins) you committed. That is what is contrary to/against you/others. Pay the fine. The law cannot condemn you, just because it is in place.
Pate: No!!!!! Abolish the law!!!!!!!
The judge: Either pay the fine, or go to jail-the law stands.
Pate: No!!!!The laws are not good-they are the problem, not me!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Tell you what, Pate. Someone just paid your fine/debt/IOU(sin, offense, transgression) on your behalf. Justice is served. You are free to go(Christ died for our sins....paying the sin debt, IOU)
Pate: No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That person need not have paid my fine/debt!!!!!(Christ need not die to pay the sin debt/IOU). The solution is to abolish, destroy, make void, the laws against speeding(fill in the blank), so that we will not have to "do" these laws, obey them, and the solution is not the fine being satisfied(Christ-propitiation)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Benevolent, gracious judge: Lock up this man for dementia, contempt of court, lunacy-put him in a straight jacket.
And now, in wickedness, attempt to delete Genesis-John. You will lose, demon:
Matthew 24:35 KJV Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
1 Peter KJV
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
He corrupts, perverts both Ephesians 2:15 KJV, Colossians 2:14 KJV, to prop up his satanic assertion that the perfect, holy, just, good, not void law of God, which reflects His character, is no longer in existence.
Thus, Pate, on record, asserts that Christ died in vain, there was no reason to die, as He did not need to die to pay our IOU/sin debt, as all the LORD God had to do, was destroy/abolish/make void/eliminate the law, so there would not be a sin debt/IOU. Thus, he then,like the devil attempts to ...
He satanically delete "the handwriting of ordinances" of Colossians 2:14 KJV, replacing it with "law/ordinances," thus perverting, corrupting the scriptures, making it look like Paul says that Christ blotted out, made void, the law/ordinances, making it look like Paul is saying that the law/ordinances are contrary/against us, not for our benefit, instead of Paul saying that the sin debt/IOU was blotted out, as that is what is contrary to us, against us, as Paul asserts that the law is perfect, good, holy, just, spiritual, not void, in Romans 11, and the problem is with man, and the sin debt/IOU for breaking a good, holy, spiritual law, not the law itself.
Pate says the opposite, asserting that the problem is with the law, as it is not perfect/good/holy/spiritual,as he asserts that it causes us to sin, as it is sin, and the problem is not with man/him, and he asserts that the solution is to assert that Christ came to destroy/abolish/blot out the law, not to die for man's breaking the good, holy, spiritual, law of God.
He keeps satanically spamming this made up slop, that Col. 2:13-14 KJV has God's holy laws in view, being nailed to the cross. I, and others, have corrected you on it, over, and over, and yet you keep asserting this satanic "doctrine." One more time, to protect the sheep/babes, from your lies:
What was nailed to the cross is described as “the handwriting of requirements"-that was against us, which was contrary to us.” Because “ordinances” sounds like “law,” some, like sloppy Pate, twist the meaning of “nailed it to the cross” into Paul saying the force of the law of God ended at the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.
The writ of charges...
In using the words “handwriting of requirements … contrary to us … nailed it to the cross,” Paul was describing the record of our sins, the indictment that required the penalty of death.
No, the indictments against believers, the charges against believers, the legal indebtedness against believers – was what was dropped, and nailed to the cross at the Lord Jesus Christ's death, rather than the law itself, which is consistently characterized in Scripture as eternal, and good...To wit:
Romans 7 KJV
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
“handwriting,”=a memorandum of debt, "a writing by hand" used in public and private contracts.
The wages of our sins—our debt—is death (Romans 6:23). The Lord Jesus Christ was willing to pay that debt by dying in our place, thus blotting out the record of our debt and pardoning our sins.
Survey the "death warrant" against us, because of our sin/sins is the sign that Pilate had nailed to the cross upon which the Lord Jesus Christ was crucified. John 19:19-22 KJV-It was customary to publish a writ of charges against the condemned, and the board above the Lord Jesus Christ's head was inscribed with the charges for which the Jewish authorities demanded His death. Thus, it was a Roman custom, to write the name of the condemned person and his crime on a plaque to be placed above his head at the execution. Survey Mark 15:26 KJV-"superscription of his accusation."
26 And the superscription of his accusation was written over, The King Of The Jews.
The charges removed-the meaning, then, of Colossians 2:13-14 KJV, based upon the immediate and the broader context is: You gentile believers had a death sentence against you due to your sin/sins-here are the charges............... But through the dbr, everything that one time could have been held against you has been removed.
The law against believers? No, it wasn’t God’s law that was against believers; it was the sins that they committed, as defined by that same holy, good law!. "the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"= anything written by hand, but can more specifically apply to a legal document, bond or note of debt, was against us!!!!
Paul is relaying that the LORD God has "wiped out," removed, "nailed to the cross," through the body of Christ , representing mankind's guilt, the instrument for the remembrance of sin. The legal basis of this instrument was the "binding statutes," Col. 2:14 KJV, but what the LORD God destroyed on the cross was not the legal ground, the law, for our entanglement into sin, but the written record of our sins. By destroying the record of sins, the LORD God removed the possibility of a charge ever being made again against those who have been forgiven-a dead man is not under jurisdiction to the law.
" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,"
The above-a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the handwriting was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.
This "handwriting" was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty, were written on a piece of parchment, and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment.This written indictment/charge/accusation are seen in John 19:19-20: accusations that were hung on the cross, on which the Lord Jesus Christ hung:
19 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was Jesus Of Nazareth The King Of The Jews.
20 This title then read many of the Jews: for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
The "accusing witness," so to speak, against the sinner, the record book of his sins, the certificate of debt, or book of debt, was removed/nailed. The Lord Jesus Christ has "erased" it, removed it out of the court, out of the witness chair of the accuser. Not only is this record of our sins removed, but it is also "nailed to the cross" in the sense that the Lord Jesus Christ took our sins upon himself, and paid the penalty for them...Survey 2 Cor. 5:21 KJV.
When we talk about "nailing it to his cross", that is not the law itself, but the curse of the law, or the penalties for disobeying the Law. It was the penalty of the broken law which He rendered inoperative, not the law itself.
In that time period when a man was charged with a crime the charges against him were written down on papyrus. If he was found not guilty the papyrus was then washed down with water, removing or blotting out those charges against him, to confirm his acquittal. This abolished the written charges against the man. This is the what is referred to in "blotting out of ordinances against us" that were nailed to the Stake, not the Law itself.
The law is still God's standard of righteousness and all the requirements for the broken law remain unchanged, apart from Him.
Again-the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty.
The certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.
Moreover, pardoning someone for committing a capital crime, doesn’t do away with the law that was broken. If anything, it shows that the law carries force, for without the pardon, the criminal would die!
In the same way, the law of God carries force since breaking it (committing sin) requires the death penalty. The law is that powerful, that important. It is holy. People aren’t saved from that which was against them (the death penalty) by doing away with the law. What saves people from death is the death of the Lord Jesus Christ in the place of those who trust 1 Cor. 15:1-4 KJV.
In fact, the wording Paul employed Colossians 2:13-14 showed that the law of God continues to carry great force. By saying the penalty demanded under the law of God was nailed to the instrument that killed the Lord Jesus Christ, Paul was showing that the law of God was still in force, still requiring death for sin.
By contrast, if the law had been brought to an abrupt end by the death of the Lord Jesus Christ, from that point on, nothing would be “against the law”-duh! Nothing could be called “sin.” Of course, we know that is not true. Sin exists, which means the law that calls it “sin” also exists!
The Lord Jesus Christ nailed to the cross what was contrary to him...
Ephesians 2:15 KJV "the law of commandments contained in ordinances;"
Colossians 2:14 KJV "the handwriting of ordinances"
Hebrews 7:16 KJV "the law of a carnal commandment"
Hebrews 9:10 KJV "carnal ordinances;"
What the Lord Jesus Christ abolished was carnal/fleshly commandments and ordinances, and hand written ordinances=that is the context..= the decrees of exclusion established by men, which were rooted in enmity between Jew & Gentile,such as “touch not, taste not, handle not”(survey Colossians 2:21 KJV), man-made social class/caste system set in place by Oral Torah, and Jewish leaders, attempting to keep a social and religious difference between Jews and Gentiles. Ordinances/decrees were laws that were man-made. Paul was referring to man-made orders, in this verse through the term “ordinance”. These “ordinances” were, yes, indeed hostile/”hate”/”enmity”, as they restrained anyone other than “Jews” worshiping God. These ordinances made a clear separation between Jew and Gentile, by elevating one above the other, to an “elite status,” to the extent where gentiles were looked down upon, scorned, and disassociated, by Jews everywhere………..
3. Pate asserts that members of the boc are sinners, not saints. Ask him.
I challenge TOL members to ask sloppy Pate, if the law is abolished, gone, no longer exists, why did Christ need to die, and with what charges can the lost be charged, since there is no holy law of God that defines the sin/offense.
Go ahead-ask him. And watch his convoluted response. And ask him to explain how the Christ can die for sins of the lost today, if there is no law, to define what sin is, thus no transgression/sin/offense? Go ahead.Ask him how one can be charged with breaking the law against speeding, if there is no law against speeding?
Last edited:
I've read your real testimony, for years on TOL, and what you wrote above is not a testimony, re. doctrine. You are a child of the devil.
A Catholic could write the above. And? Testimony, re "doctrine," not some emotional spam.
Right Divider
Body part
Nonsense RP.... just nonsense.
Please use the BIBLE to show that "Jesus kept the law for us".
Spammed for the 122th time.
He won't. He uses "human reasoning," along the lines of,"Well, if he did not, then..."
Oh, yes, he did:"If Jesus did not keep the law for us we are all still under the law and under condemnation. ..."
No, He died for our sins, moron.
Pate:Abolish the law, so that there is no sin to commit!!!!!!!!
The Bible: No, Bel Pate, the holy good, law of God stands-forever. He died for your sins, sins that are defined by that same holy, good law of God.
Pate, in court, to a judge:If some one else does not keep the law against speeding for me, I am still under the law against speeding, and under condemnation. Abolish the law against speeding, so that I cannot be charged with committing an offense/transgression(sin)by speeding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The judge: Huh? Are you drunk? No, either keep the good, just law against speeding, or, go to jail(hell), if you break the law against speeding, or have someone else pay for your debt(sin)/offense, for breaking this good, just law. Your choice. The law against speeding is just, good, not contrary to society. It stands. You/speeders are the problem-not the law against speeding. And what is contrary to you, is the fine(debt). You either pay it, or have someone else pay it, in your place(The Lord Jesus Christ paying for our sins/sin debt-get it?). Get out of my court room. Be gone.
Last edited:
The fact that you don't believe this major doctrine is very serious, I am only going to give you one scripture, because I think that you are beyond hope, Romans 7:6.
It is very apparent that this guy is nuts and may be dangerous. I think that I am going to vacate this thread. Maybe you should also.
His "out pitch," which he spams to almost everyone.
Tell us Pate: If there is no law against(fill in the blank), how can one be charged with a transgression/sin/offense, in breaking said law? Thus, why did Christ have to die for the lost person's sins, sins defined by an existing law, if there is no law, according to you, by which the sin/offense/transgression is defined?
Christ dying for our sins? What sins? There is no law, according to you, it being abolished, that defines sin/transgression/the offense. Sin is the transgression of the law....No law....No transgression...Sin is not imputed where there is no law(1 John 3:4 KJV, Romans 4:15 KJV, Romans 5:13 KJV).
I've asked him this, over, and over, and all he does is spam pat, copy'npaste "answers," based upon human reasoning. Hence, my "secular" example.
Tell us plainly, Pate, how can Christ die for all our past, current, future sins, if there is no law, defining what sin is?
Again-This is Pate's perversion of the gospel of Christ, as He makes the death of the Saviour without a cause, in vain, as his solution to the sins problem, is eliminating/abolishing the good, holy, just law of God, thus, there being no sin with which to to be charged, and not the bible's solution to the sin problem................
Christ died for our sins........................1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV
Contrasts.
And this, folks is serious business, and I will not stand on the sidelines, and be "nice," suffering from "man pleaser" disease, a common ailment in "Christendom," and allow these perversions of the gospel of Christ to permeate this board, despite the boos, and the hisses, and the beer cans, thrown at me, from the bleachers.
That's just the way I roll.....
More of his one line spams.