Is believing/faith a work ?

Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Sorry, but, "...not of works, lest anyone should boast," means that you aren't doing a 'work' to be saved, it is a gift of God. He does it for you, through you; even causing you to surrender your own will by His love and grace. If it were works: every soul could boast. :duh:
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aimiel said:
Sorry, but, "...not of works, lest anyone should boast," means that you aren't doing a 'work' to be saved, it is a gift of God. He does it for you, through you; even causing you to surrender your own will by His love and grace. If it were works: every soul could boast. :duh:
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No where does it say Faith isn't a work because it is. Its an act of the mind. Do you deny that?

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Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
No where does it say Faith isn't a work because it is. Its an act of the mind. Do you deny that?

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I do; as does The Holy Scripture:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

The prepsition, "that," in the Scripture speaks of the verbs, "grace," and, "faith," which come before it in the sentence. BOTH are the Gift of God. They're not something that you can boast of, since they're not from you. They're from God. He gives you the grace. He gives you the faith. You have to realize that the grace and the faith to be saved are NOT works, which is the whole point of this passage. What part of it is un-clear to you?

God's Spirit many times interacts with us invisibly, even to our sight, our mind and our heart, moving upon us to do His Will as He wills. Often we do His Will without even realizing how much He uses us and it is a very holy thing.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aimiel said:
I do; as does The Holy Scripture:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

The prepsition, "that," in the Scripture speaks of the verbs, "grace," and, "faith," which come before it in the sentence. BOTH are the Gift of God. They're not something that you can boast of, since they're not from you. They're from God. He gives you the grace. He gives you the faith. You have to realize that the grace and the faith to be saved are NOT works, which is the whole point of this passage. What part of it is un-clear to you?

God's Spirit many times interacts with us invisibly, even to our sight, our mind and our heart, moving upon us to do His Will as He wills. Often we do His Will without even realizing how much He uses us and it is a very holy thing.
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You deny it not scripture

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Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
beloved57 said:
You deny it not scripture

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Obviously: it is YOU who is denying the clear meaning of Scripture, for whatever reason is beyond me. I guess it's because you're proud of your faith. I'm thankful that God gave me grace, faith, hope and mostly: love.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aimiel said:
Obviously: it is YOU who is denying the clear meaning of Scripture, for whatever reason is beyond me. I guess it's because you're proud of your faith. I'm thankful that God gave me grace, faith, hope and mostly: love.
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You havent produced one scripture that says faith/believing isnt a work.
 
Aimiel

Aimiel

Well-known member
Okay, I guess you're established in whatever reality you've accepted; The Bible clearly states that the grace that works through faith is NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God and is NOT of works, so that no one can boast of being saved by their own deeds. Believe what you want, you seem to be reluctant to believe what's stated. Your belief is contrary to Scripture, but you're free to re-interpret The Word of God; since that's what you're doing, clearly.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Aimiel said:
Okay, I guess you're established in whatever reality you've accepted; The Bible clearly states that the grace that works through faith is NOT of yourselves: it is the gift of God and is NOT of works, so that no one can boast of being saved by their own deeds. Believe what you want, you seem to be reluctant to believe what's stated. Your belief is contrary to Scripture, but you're free to re-interpret The Word of God; since that's what you're doing, clearly.
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The scripture no where states that faith isn't a work. You have failed to establish that with scripture.

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beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Bright Raven said:
Ephesiians 2:8-9 has been given to you yet you refuse to see truth. Do you believe those verses? I think not.
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Those verses say absolutely nothing about faith not being a work. People read that into those scriptures and its error

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PneumaPsucheSoma

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
beloved57 said:
No where does it say Faith isn't a work because it is. Its an act of the mind. Do you deny that?

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beloved57 said:
The scripture no where states that faith isn't a work. You have failed to establish that with scripture.

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beloved57 said:
Those verses say absolutely nothing about faith not being a work. People read that into those scriptures and its error

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Nouns aren’t verbs. Faith isn’t believING. The lexicon says faith isn’t a work, because nouns aren’t verbs. Scripture says faith isn’t a work everywhere the noun is used in the text.

You are wronger than wrong. And it’s sadly pathetic.
 
B

blackbirdking

New member
beloved57 said:
Well maybe you start a thread for discussion about that.

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But it's in this thread; you said so. Why two threads on the same thing?

If obedience is not required for salvation, why is it required as you said?



beloved57 said:
Any act of obedience to Gods command is a work, a good work. Believing on Christ is a commandment of God, so therefore a good work 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here is the greek word pisteuo and in this instance its an imperative which means:

The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative !

And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
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You said, "required". Why? In order to get to heaven?

beloved57 said:
Here's another scripture that indicates faith has an element of action to it. Jesus says in Mk 11:22

And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

This is an imperative that requires action

[FONT=arial, helvetica]The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses[/FONT] a command to the hearer to perform a certain action [FONT=arial, helvetica]by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica]People try to dismiss truth by worldly arguments, the wisdom of this world.

Yes Faith here is a noun however an action is required, which is a work[/FONT]
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Again, you said, "required". Why? In order to get to heaven?

Is believing required for salvation?

Are works required for salvation?

Is believing/faith required for a person to get to heaven?

You partially covered this in your thread; surely you can discuss this in your thread.
 
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