Interpretation

[glorydaz]

All valid viewpoints. Speaking from my experience, however, we travel down the slippery slopes of judgement because we are not aware of the true identity which is the source of true self-worth. The bottom line is we don't feel good enough about ourselves. We compensate by grasping onto beliefs and living up to ideals such as being a devout Catholic for example. What's missing is self-worth which by definition comes from within. This is not a lustful desire to satisfy animal appetite. True self-worth is a genuine sense of value, meaning, significance and importance. Scriptures are not a substitute for the real thing. True self-worth is inseparable from the here and now in this exact moment. It is unconditional, omni-present, unwavering, and indivisible because it reflects its source.

Without self-worth I might unconsciously bully other people. Multiply this by centuries and by billions of people and we get utter madness throughout human history. Gradually things get worse. The adversary is very good at not causing alarm or bringing attention to itself. It's portrayed as a serpent for a reason. We are tempted to bite the fruit because it gives the illusion of control. We push away what is bad and reach for what is good. There are unconscious pleasures of foundation, stability, comfort, protection, etc. We will not let these go because it feels like death. The personality is attached and fixated to whatever it thinks will help it survive. It avoids the black hole of infinite and eternal outer space at all costs. The black hole is the enemy as we bite the fruit and judge it as bad. The beliefs of the personality are designed to help it avoid the black hole but jumping into it is the narrow gate.

We are cast out of the Garden which is similar to our innocent state in childhood. We leave behind this part of ourselves and lose touch with the source of our natural joy and self-worth in favor of identifying with the personality. We hardly notice this to be a problem. The false versions of joy and self-worth don't last so we try harder to hold onto beliefs to compensate. We know there is something deeper missing. There's no replacement for true self-worth. The story of Jesus has been trying to tell us but we miss the memo in favor of more convenient interpretations.

On the contrary. Men have always thought too highly of themselves. We have always been and will always be God's creatures. We were never meant to put ourselves ahead of God or even equal with God.

 

[patrick jane]

We are cast out of the Garden which is similar to our innocent state in childhood.

2 Timothy 3:15 KJV - 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV -

 

[Prizebeatz1]

On the contrary. Men have always thought too highly of themselves. We have always been and will always be God's creatures. We were never meant to put ourselves ahead of God or even equal with God.

I don't think that's true for all men. Sure there are many who are as you have described and there are also those on the opposite extreme. It's also important to distinguish between false and true self-worth. The false self-worth of the personality is an imitation based on external factors that fluctuate like the quality of the conditions, situations and circumstances of our lives. When things are going well we feel good, when they go poorly we feel bad. If we are able to stick to the guidelines of our religion, if we do well on our math test, if we get that promotion, if we raise a healthy family, one thing after another. None of these things are bad but we tend to unconsciously depend on them for self-worth. True self-worth is steady, always available and comes from within. It comes from the Son (the divinity of the soul) which is like the Father (God).

The message of the NT Gospels is we are one with God.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Scriptures are not a substitute for the real thing.

Are you making a Truth statement here?

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

On the contrary. Men have always thought too highly of themselves. We have always been and will always be God's creatures. We were never meant to put ourselves ahead of God or even equal with God.

Yep.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The message of the NT Gospels is we are one with God.

Please provide the exegetical support in Scripture for this statement, including support for the notion that the soul is divine, per your statement "It comes from the Son (the divinity of the soul)."

AMR

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

I don't think that's true for all men. Sure there are many who are as you have described and there are also those on the opposite extreme. It's also important to distinguish between false and true self-worth. The false self-worth of the personality is an imitation based on external factors that fluctuate like the quality of the conditions, situations and circumstances of our lives. When things are going well we feel good, when they go poorly we feel bad. If we are able to stick to the guidelines of our religion, if we do well on our math test, if we get that promotion, if we raise a healthy family, one thing after another. None of these things are bad but we tend to unconsciously depend on them for self-worth. True self-worth is steady, always available and comes from within. It comes from the Son (the divinity of the soul) which is like the Father (God).

The message of the NT Gospels is we are one with God.

You don't seem to believe in a real creator of the universe? You're
one of those, "Higher Consciousness" kind of spiritualist types.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

PB, are you at one with the universe? Do you consider yourself to be
of the "Higher Echelon of intelligentsia?"

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Please provide the exegetical support in Scripture for this statement, including support for the notion that the soul is divine, per your statement "It comes from the Son (the divinity of the soul)."

AMR

"I and the Father are one." John 10:30. The support for the divinity of the soul is found in you. You are the one who has to do the necessary work to touch that part of you to know that it is real. Not only is it possible but its necessary to do it for your own well-being and the well-being of the human race.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You don't seem to believe in a real creator of the universe? You're
one of those, "Higher Consciousness" kind of spiritualist types.

I believe in God much more now that I've had this spiritual awakening. God does not fit the images of the traditional interpretations. The scriptures point to something much much bigger and way better. There is no dimension of time with God. God is one with the act of creation itself and we are a part of this. We are active participants with creation, are we not? This is a basic fact yet it seems so simple to miss. We are in the kingdom right now but eating the forbidden fruit causes us to neglect the natural state we experienced as children which is analogous to the Garden of Eden. We have the option of reverse engineering the personality and figuring out why and how we got so far away from the Garden. "And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3.

What is the "Higher Echelon of intelligentsia?" Never heard of it.

 

[glorydaz]

I don't think that's true for all men. Sure there are many who are as you have described and there are also those on the opposite extreme. It's also important to distinguish between false and true self-worth. The false self-worth of the personality is an imitation based on external factors that fluctuate like the quality of the conditions, situations and circumstances of our lives. When things are going well we feel good, when they go poorly we feel bad. If we are able to stick to the guidelines of our religion, if we do well on our math test, if we get that promotion, if we raise a healthy family, one thing after another. None of these things are bad but we tend to unconsciously depend on them for self-worth. True self-worth is steady, always available and comes from within. It comes from the Son (the divinity of the soul) which is like the Father (God).

The message of the NT Gospels is we are one with God.

All well and good except that sentence in the yellow. The Son is not the "divinity of the soul". We are actively being conformed into the image of the Son, but in no way does our soul have divinity.

Those who are "one with God" are one with Him because we are hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:3

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

"I and the Father are one." John 10:30. The support for the divinity of the soul is found in you. You are the one who has to do the necessary work to touch that part of you to know that it is real. Not only is it possible but its necessary to do it for your own well-being and the well-being of the human race.

Quoting Scripture is not exegesis.

Has nothing to do with the divinity of the soul unless you presuppose that Our Lord was not fully God and fully man. The statement refers to Our Lord's divine nature, God the Son, the second person of the Triune God.

Our Lord was fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second person of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused. Your statement above confuses the human and divine natures of Our Lord.

One can best understand this union (together united in one subsistence and in one single Person) by examining what it is not, thus from the process of elimination determine what it must be.

The mystical union is not:

1. a denial that our Lord was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (anomoios) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that our Lord had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct person in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct persons (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. a view that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. a view that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. a view that our Lord existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

AMR

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

We are active participants with creation, are we not?

You have the usual New Age tendency of just offering up winsome statements and assume you are making meaningful statements. Please unpack and explain the above so a reasonable person may actually understand what you are really saying.

AMR

 

[Prizebeatz1]

All well and good except that sentence in the yellow. The Son is not the "divinity of the soul". We are actively being conformed into the image of the Son, but in no way does our soul have divinity.

Those who are "one with God" are one with Him because we are hid with Christ in God. Colossians 3:3

Misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures. The Son is symbolism for the divinity of the soul. No one is going to tell us or teach us we are divine because it's not profitable. Someone gains something by keeping this a secret from the general population.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

You have the usual New Age tendency of just offering up winsome statements and assume you are making meaningful statements. Please unpack and explain the above so a reasonable person may actually understand what you are really saying.

AMR

Are you kidding? This is so basic and fundamental. Are you not a part of God's creation? Are you not creative like the Creator? You are a reflection of God. You are a part of his Kingdom.

 

[glorydaz]

Misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the scriptures. The Son is symbolism for the divinity of the soul.

I hate to burst your bubble, but our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ died on the cross and there was no "symbolism" about it.

No one is going to tell us or teach us we are divine because it's not profitable. Someone gains something by keeping this a secret from the general population.

Actually, there is one who has told that LIE...from the very beginning. And here you are spreading the same lie. :nono:

Gen. 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.​

 

[glorydaz]

Are you kidding? This is so basic and fundamental. Are you not a part of God's creation?

Yes, so are trees and dogs.

Are you not creative like the Creator?

No, He merely speaks the word and it appears.

You are a reflection of God.

No, and neither are you.

You are a part of his Kingdom.

So are rocks.

 

[Prizebeatz1]

Quoting Scripture is not exegesis.

Has nothing to do with the divinity of the soul unless you presuppose that Our Lord was not fully God and fully man. The statement refers to Our Lord's divine nature, God the Son, the second person of the Triune God.

Our Lord was fully God and fully man in an indissoluble union whereby the second person of the Trinity assumed a human nature that cannot be separated, divided, mixed, or confused. Your statement above confuses the human and divine natures of Our Lord.

One can best understand this union (together united in one subsistence and in one single Person) by examining what it is not, thus from the process of elimination determine what it must be.

The mystical union is not:

1. a denial that our Lord was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (anomoios) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that our Lord had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct person in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct persons (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. a view that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. a view that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. a view that our Lord existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

AMR

If this was 5 or 6 years ago I would have whole-heartedly agreed. I am not negating any of what you have just presented so please don't take offense. I'm simply proposing that it is one possible interpretation.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The Son is symbolism for the divinity of the soul.

Sigh.

Do you agree with the points I make about Our Lord just a few posts ago?

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4612904#post4612904

Who do you think Jesus Christ is?
God only?
Man only?
Man who became a god?
Fully God and fully man?

AMR

 

[glorydaz]

If this was 5 or 6 years ago I would have whole-heartedly agreed. I am not negating any of what you have just presented so please don't take offense. I'm simply proposing that it is one possible interpretation.

Don't leave your first love. If you do, you may end up like a poster here called Keypurr. When people begin to make up their own "truths", they head down a twisted maze of a path.