ECT INFALLIBILITY OF THE POPE: Common Non-Catholic Misconceptions

Crowns&Laurels

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If you can't back it up, then don't bother making the claim.

Your posted assertion was that "the Church is guilty of every single thing noted in Matthew 23." Now go ahead and prove your claim, or have the intellectual integrity to publically retract it.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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You don't have the integrity to know it is true. Martin Luther knew it was true, and so did a good chunk of society. The Church has never denied it, either.

In fact, when confronted with all this, the Church, out of it's inability to admit it's wrongs, came up with Preterism to get around it.
The Church knows they forsook their standing, and just like the Pharisees, would not retract their wrongs.

When the Holy of Holies split, the curtain fell. I don't need a priest to come to God or substitute His authority. The believers didn't follow a pope until it formed out of man's odd obsession with heirarchy. The end.
 

Cruciform

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You don't have the integrity to know it is true. Martin Luther knew it was true, and so did a good chunk of society. The Church has never denied it, either.
So, then, no actual proof whatsoever. That's what I thought. Come back when you're able to substantiate your anti-Catholic claims.

Back to Post #101.
 

musterion

Well-known member
When a medieval pope or two buggered boys, did they do so infallibly? Or was it kind of a one-off to be ignored by the faithful?
 

everready

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Popes claiming to be God on Earth:

Popes claiming to be God on Earth:

"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh, and who by means of a being common to humanity continues His ministry amongst men ... Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ Who is speaking.

Does he teach? It is Jesus Christ Who teaches. Does he confer grace or pronounce an anathema? It is Jesus Christ Himself Who is pronouncing the anathema and conferring the grace. Hence consequently, when one speaks of the Pope, it is not necessary to examine, but to obey: there must be no limiting the bounds of the command, in order to suit the purpose of the individual whose obedience is demanded: there must be no cavilling at the declared will of the Pope, and so invest it with quite another than that which he has put upon it: no preconceived opinions must be brought to bear upon it: no rights must be set up against the rights of the Holy Father to teach and command; his decisions are not to be criticized, or his ordinances disputed.

Therefore by Divine ordination, all, no matter how august the person may be — whether he wear a crown or be invested with the purple, or be clothed in the sacred vestments: all must be subject to Him Who has had all things put under Him." -Evangelical Christendom, January 1, 1895, pg. 15, published in London by J. S. Phillips.

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God." -Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary



"All names which in the Scriptures are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope." - On the Authority of the Councils, book 2, chapter 17



"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".



"...the Pope is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." Lucius Ferraris, in "Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica", Volume V, article on "Papa, Article II", titled "Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility", #1, 5, 13-15, 18, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.



"The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth...by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth." Quoted in the New York Catechism.



-These words appeared in the Roman Canon Law: "To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.-I?i the Gloss "Extravagantes" o.f Pope John XXII *** inter, Tit. XIV, Cap. IV. Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685.



-Father A. Pereira says: "It is quite certain that Popes have never approved or rejected this title 'Lord God the Pope,' for the passage in the gloss referred to appears in the edition of the Canon Law published in Rome in 1580 by Gregory XIII."



-Writers on the Canon Law say, "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."- Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - Cardinal Cusa supports his statement.



.-Pope Nicholas I declared that "the appellation of God had been confirmed by Constantine on the Pope, who, being God, cannot be judged by man." - Labb IX Dist.: 96 Can. 7, Satis evidentur, Decret Gratian Primer Para.



"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (...) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29



"The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires (...) complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself." -Leo VIII, «On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens», Encyclical letter, 1890



"God separates those whom the Roman Pontiff, who exercises the functions, not of mere man, but of the true God (...) dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority." -Decretals of Gregory IX», Book 1, Chapter 7.3



"Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions (infernorum)." -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', p.26)



"Innocent III has written: "Indeed, it is not top much to say that in view of the sublimity of their offices the priests are so many gods." -The dignity of the priesthood by Liguori p, 36

http://babylonmysteryreligion.com/Quotes/pope claims to be God.htm

everready
 

musterion

Well-known member
That would leave a mark and give much pause for thought, if you weren't dealing with the Catholic version of Monty Python's Black Knight.
 

Cruciform

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That would leave a mark and give much pause for thought, if you weren't dealing with the Catholic version of Monty Python's Black Knight.
You can go ahead and just apply that to a good many of the Protestants on TOL---including yourself.
 

Crowns&Laurels

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"The Pope is not simply the representative of Jesus Christ. On the contrary, he is Jesus Christ Himself, under the veil of the flesh, and who by means of a being common to humanity continues His ministry amongst men ... Does the Pope speak? It is Jesus Christ Who is speaking.

Which is demonstrably false, because unlike Jesus, the popes all in all through history have been extremely inconsistent- God does not contradict or repeal His own works_
 

Crowns&Laurels

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Post your proof.

Would pope Francis order an inquisition?

If not, tell why, and then realize your proof.

If there's one thing Catholics certainly are not, it's being believers of a consistent deity. Think of all the things Jesus has supposedly said over the hundreds of years of popes :rolleyes:
 

Cruciform

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Would pope Francis order an inquisition?
Establishing such a tribunal would not constitute the formal teaching of doctrine, which is specifically what papal infallibility refers to. Therefore, your example has nothing to do with "infallibility" as it is applied to the Bishop of Rome. Try again?

If there's one thing Catholics certainly are not, it's being believers of a consistent deity. Think of all the things Jesus has supposedly said over the hundreds of years of popes.
Again, post your proof. For example...?



Gaudium de veritate,

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Crowns&Laurels

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The flip-floppery of the Church, unlike God who is perfect and consistent, is contradictory. Plain and simple.

The Church just goes back and tries to rationalize it all after the fact. Even goes as far as to canonize the same people they murdered as saints to correct their own mistakes.

Recall a verse in Revelation which says ~drunk on the blood of the saints~. Or, again, refer to Matthew 23.
 

Crowns&Laurels

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So you keep repeating. However, you have yet to actually provide an example in support of your claim. So, once again: Post your proof.

I don't have to provide proof, it is historically unchallenged.

Also
Your papacy kissed a Quran. Explain that to me, please.
Would Jesus kiss the Quran? Does it set a good example to venerate blasphemy?
 

Cruciform

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The very fact that a Muslim would give the Christian high priest a Quran, which has been an object of death for many Christians, speaks for itself altogether. Him kissing it just nails the coffin tight.
You posted this a whole four minutes after I provided the information you requested---not nearly enough time to make a careful and thorough study of the material. So much for you having the intellectual integrity to issue an honest and non-duplicitous request. It's more than clear that you aren't genuinely interested in actually understanding what the Catholic faith believes and teaches. Come back when you are.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+
 

Crowns&Laurels

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Banned
You posted this a whole four minutes after I provided the information you requested---not nearly enough time to make a careful and thorough study of the material. So much for you having the intellectual integrity to issue an honest and non-duplicitous request. It's more than clear that you aren't genuinely interested in actually understanding what the Catholic faith believes and teaches. Come back when you are.

The alleged high priest of Christianity kissing a book which kills Christians every single day. That's all that needs to be said.

No doubt, this and much more serious things have been the acts of popes through every century since it's creation. There is no forensic difference between the papacy and any other high seat in the world- bargaining to remain relevant to whatever it's interests lie. The Faith comes second to it's political gain.
 
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