Theology Club: Imputation of Christ's Righteousness

[2COR12:9]

Romans 4:11

Whose righteousness do you think it is that is imputed to us?

Well since it does not say Christ in that text, I will not read Him into it. I would have to say it's God's righteousness passed to him by his faith, and I can couple that with more then a few texts.

2 Corinthians 5:21

Is Christ not God?

Did you read the last paragraph of my post, I already explained my view on this. In regards to this passage though, it's clearly differentiating the Father from the Son in the same verse. This is why it reads, so that in him(Christ) we might become the righteousness of God. Not, in Christ we might become the righteousness of Christ, which is how it could have been unambiguously written, if it was Paul's intention to state we were imparted Christ's righteousness.

Here's some verses that clearly say righteousness is a a gift from God, for those who have faith, our faith in Christ allows us to become righteous, not through an imputing of righteousness from Him, but by the work He has done on the cross. So I will leave it where scripture has revealed it as, and I feel no need to add my own words into the text that do not exist, in order have a nicely packaged doctrine of Justification.

Romans 1:17
Romans 3:21
Romans 3:22
Romans 5:17
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:11
Philippians 3:9​

 

[Lighthouse]

Rom. 11:29

I just took angel to task on your shared bad proof texting...ahem.:doh::carryon:

lain:

Well since it does not say Christ in that text, I will not read Him into it. I would have to say it's God's righteousness passed to him by his faith, and I can couple that with more then a few texts.

Did you read the last paragraph of my post, I already explained my view on this. In regards to this passage though, it's clearly differentiating the Father from the Son in the same verse. This is why it reads, so that in him(Christ) we might become the righteousness of God. Not, in Christ we might become the righteousness of Christ, which is how it could have been unambiguously written, if it was Paul's intention to state we were imparted Christ's righteousness.

Here's some verses that clearly say righteousness is a a gift from God, for those who have faith, our faith in Christ allows us to become righteous, not through an imputing of righteousness from Him, but by the work He has done on the cross. So I will leave it where scripture has revealed it as, and I feel no need to add my own words into the text that do not exist, in order have a nicely packaged doctrine of Justification.

Romans 1:17
Romans 3:21
Romans 3:22
Romans 5:17
Galatians 2:16
Galatians 3:11
Philippians 3:9​

lain:

 

[glorydaz]

Israel was never saved. Salvation is in the life of Jesus, which comes from His resurrection from the dead which had yet to happen during the times recorded in the OT.

Those who actually know God will never become atheist; for they cannot deny His existence, for one.

And while some can be fooled for a time and led astray into thinking the God they know is another god, they cannot undo what He has done, by any action of their own; and He will not undo it, for His gifts and calling are irrevocable.

:first:

 

[Nang]

lain:


lain:

Problem is, "faith" is a virtue, and dead sinners possess no (life), let alone living virtues at all.

Dead sinners must first be born again from above, and then gifted with faith to believe and repent.

The heresy that sinners have virtue to exercise their wills to believe in faith to obtain salvation, is the heresy of Pelagius.

Google it . . . it is an ancient lie from the devil that plagues the visible churches to this day.

 

[Guyver]

The heresy that sinners have virtue to exercise their wills to believe in faith to obtain salvation, is the heresy of Pelagius.

Google it . . . it is an ancient lie from the devil that plagues the visible churches to this day.

Nope. You are saying things but what you're saying isn't Biblical. A person's choice to receive Christ is clear.

John 1

"He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Those who received him, He gave the right to become children of God, which is the will of God.

1 Timothy 2:4

That Jesus offers. Revelation 3:20

That people receive. Acts 2:41

 

[Nang]

Nope. You are saying things but what you're saying isn't Biblical. A person's choice to receive Christ is clear.

John 1

"He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Those who received him, He gave the right to become children of God, which is the will of God.

1 Timothy 2:4

That Jesus offers. Revelation 3:20

That people receive. Acts 2:41

The point is, Guyver, is sinners do not believe or receive Christ, according to inner virtue or spiritual abilities. They are unable to do so, for they are dead in their trespasses. Ephesians 2:1-5

Only by the power and grace of God, are sinners raised from this dead spiritual state, and given new spiritual life, in order to receive truth, believe, and repent.

Pelagius taught that men deserved credit for believing in Christ. Reformers, such as myself, believe that God alone receives credit for sinners believing in His Son.

Soli Deo Gloria!

That is the bottom line!

Who is to receive the glory for sinners being saved?

Sinners, or the sacrificial works, grace, and power of the Savior?

 

[Guyver]

The point is, Guyver, is sinners do not believe or receive Christ, according to inner virtue or spiritual abilities. They are unable to do so, for they are dead in their trespasses. Ephesians 2:1-5

Only by the power and grace of God, are sinners raised from this dead spiritual state, and given new spiritual life, in order to receive truth, believe, and repent.

Pelagius taught that men deserved credit for believing in Christ. Reformers, such as myself, believe that God alone receives credit for sinners believing in His Son.

Soli Deo Gloria!

That is the bottom line!

Who is to receive the glory for sinners being saved?

Sinners, or the sacrificial works, grace, and power of the Savior?

OK...but let me ask you this. At one point Jesus said something that offended some of his disciples....remember? Many went away. Jesus turned to the 12, that would become 11...and said, "Are you going to go away also?"

Doesn't the action described here, and the response by Jesus demonstrate that people have the freewill to believe in Christ or not believe in him?

 

[Nang]

OK...but let me ask you this. At one point Jesus said something that offended some of his disciples....remember? Many went away. Jesus turned to the 12, that would become 11...and said, "Are you going to go away also?"

Doesn't the action described here, and the response by Jesus demonstrate that people have the freewill to believe in Christ or not believe in him?

This incident proves that even though many walked away, those saved by the grace and power of God, remained.

The natural will of man harbors only enmity against God and His truth. If Jesus had not chosen His disciples and gifted them with faith to believe . . . they would have left Him, too.

All of us believers must remember:

". . . We are HIS workmanship." Ephesians 2:10

 

[Guyver]

This incident proves that even though many walked away, those saved by the grace and power of God, remained.

Well yeah...there's no other way to be saved anyway.

The natural will of man harbors only enmity against God and His truth. If Jesus had not chosen His disciples and gifted them with faith to believe . . . they would have left Him, too.

So, you're saying those who walked away weren't ones who Jesus chose, loved, or wished to be saved? I guess I just can't wrap my head around that mindset. Why would the Savior not want to save? That's what he does.

All of us believers must remember:

". . . We are HIS workmanship." Ephesians 2:10

Well, there just is no denying that. But I wonder if we agree that it means the same thing? We are his workmanship because he's the one who made salvation available to all who believe.

I guess I wanted to post the one verse that came to mind as I was reading your response here.

John 6:70

What do you suppose that means?

 

[godrulz]

Problem is, "faith" is a virtue, and dead sinners possess no (life), let alone living virtues at all.

Dead sinners must first be born again from above, and then gifted with faith to believe and repent.

The heresy that sinners have virtue to exercise their wills to believe in faith to obtain salvation, is the heresy of Pelagius.

Google it . . . it is an ancient lie from the devil that plagues the visible churches to this day.

You display ignorance by assuming a non-Calvinistic view like Arminianism is Pelagian. This is like saying Open Theism is Process Thought or Socinianism or like me saying deterministic Calvinism is fatalistic Islam.

Repentant faith (condition) precedes regeneration; regeneration does not precede repentant faith (though they are essentially simultaneous).

Deterministic, decretal views and TULIP are not correctomungo.

 

[Nang]

I guess I wanted to post the one verse that came to mind as I was reading your response here.

John 6:70

What do you suppose that means?

It means God is also sovereign over the reprobate. God controls the ways and determines the fate of all His creatures.

 

[glorydaz]

It means God is also sovereign over the reprobate. God controls the ways and determines the fate of all His creatures.

God's sovereignty and man's free will work perfectly together. Isn't God great? Always higher than our understanding.

 

[godrulz]

It means God is also sovereign over the reprobate. God controls the ways and determines the fate of all His creatures.

Yes, but Calvinism makes this arbitrary, not just nor loving.

Double predestination impugns the character and ways of God. Calvinism is not biblical on all points.

 

[godrulz]

God's sovereignty and man's free will work perfectly together. Isn't God great? Always higher than our understanding.

This is only possible if we reject sovereignty as meticulous control (a wrong view). Calvinism cannot reconcile their view of sovereignty and genuine free will (compatibilism is not legit).

 

[glorydaz]

This is only possible if we reject sovereignty as meticulous control (a wrong view). Calvinism cannot reconcile their view of sovereignty and genuine free will (compatibilism is not legit).

I don't know about the big words, but I know the prayers of a righteous man availeth much. They would have no effect with a God who could not be moved.

 

[Lighthouse]

I don't know about the big words, but I know the prayers of a righteous man availeth much. They would have no effect with a God who could not be moved.

Which means Calvinism is false then, right?

So is Arminianism, as it also claims God already knows and thus cannot change.

 

[godrulz]

Which means Calvinism is false then, right?

So is Arminianism, as it also claims God already knows and thus cannot change.

Calvinism is decretal, deterministic, but Arminianism is a relational, free will theism like Open Theism (a more coherent, biblical free will theism).

I agree that Arminian simple foreknowledge is problematic philosophically, but most Arminians believe God can and does change and that He sees the future, not causes all of it.

 

[Nang]

Yes, but Calvinism makes this arbitrary, not just nor loving.

Double predestination impugns the character and ways of God. Calvinism is not biblical on all points.

Oh, pooh . . .

 

[Lighthouse]

Calvinism is decretal, deterministic, but Arminianism is a relational, free will theism like Open Theism (a more coherent, biblical free will theism).

I agree that Arminian simple foreknowledge is problematic philosophically, but most Arminians believe God can and does change and that He sees the future, not causes all of it.

And thus Arminian thinking is illogical.

 

[godrulz]

Oh, pooh . . .

True, Winnie...