Importance of Obedience - Law vs Faith

[Epoisses]

While I agree with the sentiment, the fact is that you're degrading the day specifically created for rest. If Messiah called Himself the Lord of the Sabbath, I'm sure it was for a reason other than 'I don't have to do it'. It's ridiculous and illogical.

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And you're trusting in a day as if it had some magic power to save you when it's just a shadow. Paul said the Sabbath days were a shadow but the reality is found in Christ. God requires us to be 'in Christ' seven days a week not just one.

 

[Epoisses]

I'd also like to ask of that's how you feel about murder.... Do you kill people and then say that Christianity isn't about murder, it's about Christ?

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Typical legalistic argument as if grace is too weak to keep me from murder, stealing, adultery and so on.

 

[Epoisses]

And if we are going to claim it's not about a day, we should probably ignore the fact that He rose on the Feast of Firstfruits. Since it's not about a day, we shouldn't get too excited about Sunday....you know, since it's not about a day.

Just so we're clear, if you believe that he fulfilled all prophecy, keep in mind that the fall holidays are still unfulfilled in Messiah.

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Sunday is a tradition of the church not a commandment. The Sabbath was a commandment for the Jews under the old covenant. Under the new covenant we rest in the finished work of Christ and live by his love. Grace, faith and love are the big three under this covenant, none of which are a day.

 

[themuzicman]

Anyone care what the commandments of the New Covenant are?

1 John 3:19 By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; 20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us. 24 Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

Oddly enough, nothing here about the Old Covenant Law.

 

[JonahofAkron]

And you're trusting in a day as if it had some magic power to save you when it's just a shadow. Paul said the Sabbath days were a shadow but the reality is found in Christ. God requires us to be 'in Christ' seven days a week not just one.

I'm not 'trusting' in any day. I'm only trusting in the sacrifice of the Messiah. Who says that being in Messiah has anything to do with the Sabbath? I didn't. Jamie didn't. Jacob didn't. The claim is that God rested on the seventh day and that Messiah claims it was made for our benefit; not the obvious disdain you carry.

Being a shadow and finding the reality in Messiah in even more important than your cursory understanding implies: it let's us know that the original design is imitation of Messiah and understanding that He is the ultimate rest at the end of this age. To speak plainly, if you're doing what He did, you're resting with or bringing wholeness to others on the Sabbath.

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[JonahofAkron]

Typical legalistic argument as if grace is too weak to keep me from murder, stealing, adultery and so on.

Your false understanding of grace obviously keeps you from understanding the simplicity of the logic we keep using: if you love Him, keep His commands. John 14:15-31. It isn't legalistic to keep His commands.

Is the Messiah the Word in the flesh?

And as far as grace is concerned, did God free the Egyptians from bondage to put them directly into more bondage? How gracious is that understanding?

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[JonahofAkron]

Anyone care what the commandments of the New Covenant are?



Oddly enough, nothing here about the Old Covenant Law.

We don't need a reference to it here, since John already said that lawlessness is sin in 1 John 3:4.

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[jamie]

God created the first day and second day and third day and so on and he also chose the first day to come back to life on as the blessed inauguration of Christianity. Christianity is not about a day it's about Christ.

Jesus had to be resurrected on the first day of the week to fulfill Mosaic law.

 

[jamie]

Jesus was showing that the Sabbath keeping of the Pharisees was wrong. Why don't you read the verses in context.

So how does that make the Sabbath pagan? Are you thinking Jesus was a SDA?

 

[jamie]

Funny how supposed Christians are pushing a Jewish Sabbath on others!?! That's not something you hear every day.

Christ was not a Jew when he created the Sabbath for mankind. It is a gift to the uncircumcised of heart.

 

[jamie]

God requires us to be 'in Christ' seven days a week not just one.

How is that related to creation?

 

[JonahofAkron]

How is that related to creation?

Not only that, but who has ever claimed that you only have to be in Messiah on the Sabbath.

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[jamie]

Sunday is a tradition of the church not a commandment.

When did Sunday become a tradition of your church?

 

[jamie]

Oddly enough, nothing here about the Old Covenant Law.

Oddly enough, the NT is about a covenant older than the Old Covenant.

 

[Epoisses]

So how does that make the Sabbath pagan? Are you thinking Jesus was a SDA?

The only people I know who push the Sabbath are Jews, Messianic or SDA. Which one are you?

 

[Epoisses]

I'm not 'trusting' in any day. I'm only trusting in the sacrifice of the Messiah. Who says that being in Messiah has anything to do with the Sabbath? I didn't. Jamie didn't. Jacob didn't. The claim is that God rested on the seventh day and that Messiah claims it was made for our benefit; not the obvious disdain you carry.

Being a shadow and finding the reality in Messiah in even more important than your cursory understanding implies: it let's us know that the original design is imitation of Messiah and understanding that He is the ultimate rest at the end of this age. To speak plainly, if you're doing what He did, you're resting with or bringing wholeness to others on the Sabbath.

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You're not trusting in the Messiah by your own lips, lol.

 

[Epoisses]

Christ was not a Jew when he created the Sabbath for mankind. It is a gift to the uncircumcised of heart.

Someone with a circumcised heart rests in the finished work of Christ and could care less about the shadow day.

 

[God's Truth]

Some people want to put the Sabbath Day up there with Jesus.

Some people want us to honor the Sabbath as we honor the Lord.

However, the Sabbath Day was just a teaching tool---a SHADOW of Jesus.

Shadows are not the person, it is below the person.

We no longer have to obey shadows, we are to obey Jesus.

We are not to observe a shadow once a week---we are to observe Jesus ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

 

[Epoisses]

How is that related to creation?

God rested on the 7th day of creation. Adam didn't do anything!!!

And it was a one time rest just like the work of Christ for our redemption was a one time event. He saved the whole world and then sat down on the right hand of God.

 

[God's Truth]

We are to obey the teachings of Jesus, those teachings are words from God. Whatever Jesus says, it is what God the Father says.

Jesus fulfilled the teaching tools and shadows. We do not have to do the works of the purification/ceremonial works, but we do have to obey all of Jesus' teachings.