ECT II Timothy 2: 15 and Dispensationalism's Rightly Dividing the Word of God.

[Rosenritter]

Fallacious reasoning.

Glad you admit it.

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV
(1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In times past he spoke by the Hebrew prophets, and now He has spoken to us by his Son. "Us" includes everyone.

 

[musterion]

Fallacious reasoning.

He didn't address what I wrote either.

 

[turbosixx]

THOSE are NOT the book to the HEBREWS!

True, it's not to Hebrews. Paul is writing to Christians. He's telling them "YOU ARE Abrahams offspring" no matter what their lineage, if they are IN Christ.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

ISRAEL is the grandson of Abraham. Abraham is the father of MANY nations.

It doesn't matter who your physical ancestors are. Even if you are a physical descendant of Israel you might NOT be Israel.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring,

It's only the children of promise who are counted as offspring, NOT children of the flesh.
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

[Rosenritter]

True, it's not to Hebrews. Paul is writing to Christians. He's telling them "YOU ARE Abrahams offspring" no matter what their lineage, if they are IN Christ.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

Hebrews 2:10-14 KJV
(10) For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(11) For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
(12) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
(13) And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
(14) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

1. Those he brings to glory are his sons.
2. The captain of salvation is one with they who are sanctified.
3. They who are sanctified are also called his brethren.
4. "Brethren" and "church" are used as synonyms.
5. The "children" are those that he frees from death.

Hebrews was written to those for those who are one in Christ, for the children who are partakers of flesh and blood, and it is for these children that he might destroy the devil and the power of death. You'd better hope that book was written (applicable) to you R. Divider... even if it is written in a way that assumes the reader is familiar with the Hebrew scriptures.

 

[Danoh]

...

Is there any indication in these texts using oikomonia of "obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God" during different periods of time? The answer is no."

Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them THEIR PORTION of meat IN DUE SEASON? 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord WHEN he cometh shall find so doing.

That right there is an example of TWO DIFFERENT Time Frames, Oikonomias, or Economies.

Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

And that right there is an example of TWO DIFFERENT Time Frames, Oikonomias, or Economies.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

And that right there is an example of TWO DIFFERENT Time Frames, Oikonomias, or Economies.

And there are many more examples in Scripture of DIFFERENT Time Frames, Oikonomias, or Economies.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8, in each - our stead.

 

[Danoh]

So God has not spoken to us by his Son?

Were the "us" being spoken to of THEIR Fenway Park, and of THEIR New England Clam Chowder, etc., it'd be easy to determine that people from Massachusetts were being addressed, and about THEIR things.

What does Hebrews continually go on about to its' "us" - THEIR Law and THEIR Prophets, and THEIR Priesthood, and so on...

And ALL OF IT as if addressing THE HEBREWS.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

REPEATEDLY and THROUGHOUT Scripture, the phrase "the people" VERY often refers to THE HEBREW PEOPLE.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Must be why the book of HEBREWS is referred to as "the Epistle to THE HEBREWS."

Only some previously acquired bias or another, going in, would conclude otherwise.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8 towards ya.

 

[Right Divider]

True, it's not to Hebrews. Paul is writing to Christians. He's telling them "YOU ARE Abrahams offspring" no matter what their lineage, if they are IN Christ.
And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

It doesn't matter who your physical ancestors are. Even if you are a physical descendant of Israel you might NOT be Israel.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring,

It's only the children of promise who are counted as offspring, NOT children of the flesh.
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

God has always given blessing to ALL that believe.

That does NOT change the SPECIAL place that God has for Israel.

 

[Right Divider]

Glad you admit it.

Thanks for agreeing that he was using fallacious reasoning.

Hebrews 1:1-2 KJV
(1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
(2) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In times past he spoke by the Hebrew prophets, and now He has spoken to us by his Son. "Us" includes everyone.

Believe whatever you want.

 

[Right Divider]

Hebrews was written to those for those who are one in Christ, for the children who are partakers of flesh and blood, and it is for these children that he might destroy the devil and the power of death. You'd better hope that book was written (applicable) to you R. Divider... even if it is written in a way that assumes the reader is familiar with the Hebrew scriptures.

It is not just "written in a way that assumes the reader is familiar with the Hebrew scriptures", it is ADDRESSED to the HEBREWS.

HENCE the NAME of the BOOK.

 

[turbosixx]

God has always given blessing to ALL that believe.

That does NOT change the SPECIAL place that God has for Israel.

Yes, God has always accepted all who believe. That hasn't changed. God has a special place for Israel as well and that hasn't changed. What has changed is who God considers to be Israel. Now to be an Israelite doesn't depend on physical birth, which no one has a choice in, but spiritual birth which we DO have a choice in.
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Christians are the children of promise.
Gal. 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Now 100% of Israel loves God and do not need to be taught "know God" because every Christian has to know Him in order to become a Christian.

Outside of Christ, death.

 

[Right Divider]

Yes, God has always accepted all who believe. That hasn't changed. God has a special place for Israel as well and that hasn't changed. What has changed is who God considers to be Israel. Now to be an Israelite doesn't depend on physical birth, which no one has a choice in, but spiritual birth which we DO have a choice in.
8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Christians are the children of promise.
Gal. 4:28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Now 100% of Israel loves God and do not need to be taught "know God" because every Christian has to know Him in order to become a Christian.

Outside of Christ, death.

ISRAEL is Abraham's GRANDSON. You bogus idea that "What has changed is who God considers to be Israel" ​is a MYTH, like so much of what you believe.

 

[turbosixx]

ISRAEL is Abraham's GRANDSON. You bogus idea that "What has changed is who God considers to be Israel" ​is a MYTH, like so much of what you believe.

What makes someone an Israelite?

 

[Right Divider]

What makes someone an Israelite?

Being a descendant of ISRAEL.

This is why they are frequently called the CHILDREN of ISRAEL in scripture.

 

[turbosixx]

Being a descendant of ISRAEL.

This is why they are frequently called the CHILDREN of ISRAEL in scripture.

Is that all?

 

[Right Divider]

Is that all?

There is faithful Israel and unfaithful Israel.

 

[turbosixx]

There is faithful Israel and unfaithful Israel.

True. What I'm getting at is, it's my understanding that in order to be a fleshly Israelite, one has to be a descendant of Abraham, thru his legitimate heir, Isaac (son of promise). Also, they must be circumcised or they will be cut off. We can see these two fleshly requirements in Paul's credentials as a Jew here.
Phil. 3:5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless.
Christians meet these 2 requirements in Christ, Gal. 3:29 and Col. 2:11.

The promise was made to Abraham and his offspring, singular not plural. It was NOT made to the people but to Christ.
Gal. 3:15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ.

Gentiles before were separated from Christ.
Eph. 2:11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise,

Now, in Christ, Gentiles are members of God's household. God's house is not divided.
2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

In Christ, Jew and Gentile, are the circumcision.
Phil. 3:3 For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh—

Outside of Christ is death, Jew and Gentile.

 

[Rosenritter]

Were the "us" being spoken to of THEIR Fenway Park, and of THEIR New England Clam Chowder, etc., it'd be easy to determine that people from Massachusetts were being addressed, and about THEIR things.

What does Hebrews continually go on about to its' "us" - THEIR Law and THEIR Prophets, and THEIR Priesthood, and so on...

And ALL OF IT as if addressing THE HEBREWS.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

REPEATEDLY and THROUGHOUT Scripture, the phrase "the people" VERY often refers to THE HEBREW PEOPLE.

Acts 3:12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?

Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them,

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Must be why the book of HEBREWS is referred to as "the Epistle to THE HEBREWS."

Only some previously acquired bias or another, going in, would conclude otherwise.

Nevertheless, Romans 5:6-8 towards ya.

Yet you seem to have no problem interpreting an epistle directed to those at Rome as being applicable towards you. Yet you are not a Roman and have likely never been in Rome. You seem very inconsistent.

 

[Rosenritter]

It is not just "written in a way that assumes the reader is familiar with the Hebrew scriptures", it is ADDRESSED to the HEBREWS.

HENCE the NAME of the BOOK.

Toss out the letter written to the Corinthians, and the Galatians, and the Philippians while you are at it as well then.

 

[Danoh]

Yet you seem to have no problem interpreting an epistle directed to those at Rome as being applicable towards you. Yet you are not a Roman and have likely never been in Rome. You seem very inconsistent.

Romans 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ TO THE GENTILES, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of THE GENTILES might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Romans 5:6-8.

 

[Danoh]

Toss out the letter written to the Corinthians, and the Galatians, and the Philippians while you are at it as well then.

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.

And so on...

Rom. 5:6-8.