ECT If you want out of the deceptions of MAD read the rebuttal of Bullinger by Ironside.

Status
Not open for further replies.
dodge

dodge

New member
Tambora said:
Does that include following these instructions from Jesus?
Go not unto the Gentiles.
Tell no one I am the Christ.

You see, Dodge, just saying to follow Jesus as a blanket statement does not deal with the differences in the instructions Jesus gave at all times.
But you already know that. You just want to continue to be deceptive about it.
Click to expand...

Tam. it really is not that hard. A few things Jesus said concerning Israel but the vast majority of Jesus' teachings were for the B.O.C..

When Jesus said, come unto me etc. does that apply to you and me ?
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
dodge said:
Tam. it really is not that hard. A few things Jesus said concerning Israel but the vast majority of Jesus' teachings were for the B.O.C..

When Jesus said, come unto me etc. does that apply to you and me ?
Click to expand...
Jesus speaking to Israel.
Matthew 11 KJV
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.




Well, Dodge, just what type of 'rest' is that supposed to be?
What type of 'rest' was GOD offering to Israel in the OT that the Messiah would bring?
"Rest" from what?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Jesus speaking to Israel.
Matthew 11 KJV
(28) Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.




Well, Dodge, just what type of 'rest' is that supposed to be?
What type of 'rest' was GOD offering to Israel in the OT that the Messiah would bring?
"Rest" from what?
Click to expand...





The rest is from the burden of the Law, as declared in Acts 15, and Jesus speaks to all in any religion about that. In one eastern religion, they feel so obligated to tally a pile of prayers that they have flags that 'wave' prayers, and even the millions of those flappings do not come close to the assurance that is in Christ Jesus. Meanwhile, the Muslim is crushed by his attempt to balance good and evil acts.
 
Tambora

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Interplanner said:
The rest is from the burden of the Law,
Click to expand...
What do you mean by rest from the law?
Don't have to abide by the law anymore?

We know Gentiles don't have to abide by the law.
But when did Jesus tell Israel they didn't have to abide by the law anymore?
In fact Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the the law or the prophets would go away until ALL was fulfilled.
ALL of both the law and the prophets.
And we know that Jesus has not yet fulfilled ALL of it.
And until He does, not one single jot or tittle of either will be removed.

Or are you under the impression that this is it, and there is nothing left for Jesus to fulfill of all the law and all the prophets?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
What do you mean by rest from the law?
Don't have to abide by the law anymore?

We know Gentiles don't have to abide by the law.
But when did Jesus tell Israel they didn't have to abide by the law anymore?
In fact Jesus said not one jot or tittle of the the law or the prophets would go away until ALL was fulfilled.
ALL of both the law and the prophets.
And we know that Jesus has not yet fulfilled ALL of it.
And until He does, not one single jot or tittle of either will be removed.

Or are you under the impression that this is it, and there is nothing left for Jesus to fulfill of all the law and all the prophets?
Click to expand...





Yes, for our purposes, Jesus fulfilled it all, rom 10:4. He even got baptized by John to fulfill all righteousness.

This doesnt' have anything to do with essential moral and ethical standards, but with many ritual and dietary and ceremonial aspects.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
musterion said:
Well that's plain enough I guess. Dodge's source of doctrine is old covenant.
Click to expand...

What don't you understand that Jesus fulfilled the law and brought truth and grace.

musterion you rob yourself by not distinguishing between what Jesus taught to Israel and what He taught to the B.O.C..

There is no way to be saved other than by the grace that Jesus sacrificed to provide.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
dodge said:
What don't you understand that Jesus fulfilled the law and brought truth and grace.

musterion you rob yourself by not distinguishing between what Jesus taught to Israel and what He taught to the B.O.C..

There is no way to be saved other than by the grace that Jesus sacrificed to provide.
Click to expand...

You said you walk according to what was taught during the Old Testament.

We can't help you, and you can't help us.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
dodge said:
If you do not follow Jesus YOU are not a Christian.

What:

Mat 11:28
Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Mat 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Mat 11:30
For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

In those verses the individual has an invitation from Jesus Himself.

It addresses every lost person.

Jesus promises rest for those that come to Him.

Jesus says to take His yoke upon us ( walk the walk do not just talk the talk ).

Jesus said to learn of Him NOT Paul.

When walking with Jesus His burden is light.

When we go to Jesus take His yoke( follow Him ) ,learn of Him,and we then find rest unto our souls.

WHY:

Jesus said it.
Click to expand...
Do you obey these?

Matt 10:5-6 (KJV)​
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

​
Matt 16:20 (KJV)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

​
Luke 12:33 (KJV)​
(12:33) Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. ​

I thought not, you lying hypocrite.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Do you obey these?

Matt 10:5-6 (KJV)​
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

​
Matt 16:20 (KJV)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

​
Luke 12:33 (KJV)​
(12:33) Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. ​

I thought not, you lying hypocrite.
Click to expand...





Those were all said to specific people and in specific circumstances anyway.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
Right Divider said:
Do you obey these?

Matt 10:5-6 (KJV)​
(10:5) These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not: (10:6) But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

​
Matt 16:20 (KJV)​
(16:20) Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

​
Luke 12:33 (KJV)​
(12:33) Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. ​

I thought not, you lying hypocrite.
Click to expand...

YOU make a lot of excuses to IGNORE Jesus and what He taught for the B.O.C. you are nothing more than a hypocrite who has no clue.
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
dodge said:
A. Ironside, in refuting the teachings of Bullinger, cited this passage:


If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. (1Timothy 6:3-5)

Here is Ironside's application of the passage to hyperdispensationalism:


One would almost think that this was a direct command to Timothy to beware of Bullingerism! Notice, Timothy is to withdraw himself from, that is, to have no fellowship with, those who refuse the present authority of the words of our Lord Jesus Christ. Where do you get those actual words? Certainly in the four Gospels. There are very few actual words of the Lord Jesus Christ scattered throughout the rest of the New Testament. Of course there is a sense in which all the New Testament is from Him, but the apostle is clearly referring here to the actual spoken words of our Saviour, which have been recorded for the benefit of the saints, and which set forth the teaching that is in accordance with godliness or practical piety. If a man refuses these words, whether on the plea that they do not apply to our dispensation, or for any other reason, the Spirit of God declares it is an evidence of intellectual or spiritual pride.12

Ironside is saying that when Paul warned Timothy against those who do not teach doctrine in agreement with "the words of the Lord Jesus," since those words are found in the gospels, Paul is warning against teachers like Bullinger and his hyperdispensational descendants.

Furthermore, the book of Hebrews claims that God has spoken "to us in His Son" (1:2) and claims Jesus' words were confirmed to us by the apostles: "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will" (Hebrews 2:3, 4). That should settle the matter—Jesus' words and the words of His apostles are both considered from Jesus and binding on the church. But this does not work with hyperdispensationalists because to them the book of Hebrews is not for the church either. For example, Les Feldick will only apply Hebrews to those Jews under a different gospel than Paul preached:

http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue108.htm
Click to expand...

Yea Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars" showed his lack of scholarship.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
dodge

dodge

New member
musterion said:
Dodge,

What was revealed to Paul that God had never revealed to anyone before?
Click to expand...

What God revealed to Paul had already been revealed to the other Apostles. Paul was late in becoming a Christian while others were out preaching the "good news" Paul was persecuting the church of the Lord Jesus Christ as Jesus Himself said ," Paul why do you persecute me" , and Paul's response was ," who are you Lord" ?

I know MAD does not recognize the over 3000 in Acts 2 to that was added to the church nor the 5000 in Acts 4 that were also added to the church PROVING that MAD is a lie and has no clue what the church of the Lord Jesus is.
 
intojoy

intojoy

BANNED
Banned
dodge said:
What God revealed to Paul had already been revealed to the other Apostles. Paul was late in becoming a Christian while others were out preaching the "good news" Paul was persecuting the church of the Lord Jesus Christ as Jesus Himself said ," Paul why do you persecute me" , and Paul's response was ," who are you Lord" ?

I know MAD does not recognize the over 3000 in Acts 2 to that was added to the church nor the 5000 in Acts 4 that were also added to the church PROVING that MAD is a lie and has no clue what the church of the Lord Jesus is.
Click to expand...

“And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? And he answered and said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”
??Matthew? ?13:10-11? ?ASV??

There are 8 mysteries in the New Testament.

A mystery in Paul's theology is defined as something totally unrevealed in the Old Testament only now being revealed in the New Testament by the Apostles and prophets.

Was grace salvation known in the Old Testament? Yes. So grace salvation is not the mystery.

Was the fact that the Messiah was going to die for sins known in the Old Testament? Yes. So the work of the cross is not the mystery.

Was gentile salvation known in the Old Testament? Yes. So Gentile salvation is not the mystery.

Was the fact that Gentiles as Gentiles would become one body with Jewish believers known in the Old Testament? No. Then the Body of Christ having both Jews and Gentiles is one of the eight mysteries.

Paul we are told was the Apostle to the Gentiles.

Paul also was given special revelation concerning these 8 mysteries that was not given to the other apostles.

However, MAD is not using the term musterion the way Paul uses it because the fact that Messiah would die for sin and for Gentiles was revealed in the OT. All of the OT scriptures that reveal exactly what the content of salvation by the cross are in my thread: Messianic Christology.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top