I like Bob Enyart

[Lighthouse]

How could he possibly know that if he didn't know the future?

Not knowing the future does not preclude Him from not knowing His plans for it. If He has determined something and decided He will not be swayed then it is settled. Just because not all things are settled that doesn't mean nothing is.

Because I don't believe he is unable to see the future.

1. Do you believe He is unable to see that which does not exist?
2. You have made it that He must be able to see the future which is putting a limit upon Him.

Yes, probably.

At the top of the posting box [where you type your responses] there are a number of buttons for editing your text: from left to right the first section is for bold, italics and underline; second is for text alignment [left, middle, right]; third is for lists and paragraph indentation. The first two in that section are for lists: numbered and bullet points.

For instance

John 6:37

All that the father has given me will come to me.

Note: It says the father GAVE them. Not that they came of their own free will. They only came because the father GAVE them. Who gave them? The Father. By divine election.

You're definitely reading into that one. "That" is not a word used to refer to persons, it is used to refer to things. If Jesus had meant people He would have said, "...who..," as He did in the next clause.

John 10:27 says they didn't believe BECAUSE they weren't his sheep. Again, if they were his sheep, they would have believed, but BECAUSE they weren't his sheep, they didn't believe. They were not predestined to believe.

No it doesn't. It simply says that those who are His sheep hear His voice, He knows them and they follow Him.

Did you mean v26? [Jesus]"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."[/Jesus]

This only tells us that because they rejected Him they did not believe Him. There is no implication or inference that they were elected to not believe.

4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory

The election of the Body is like the predestination of a plane. The plane is decidedly going to a specific destination, chosen beforehand. Those who choose board the plane are not predestined beforehand. They are only going to that destination on that plane if they are on board that plane when it takes off, but they have to choose of their own accord to board the plane.

BTW: the doctrine of election isn't necessarily one that makes me happy. I resisted believing it for a long time. I argued that Romans 9 was talking about nations. I still think there's merit to that. But its not just Romans 9. Predestination and election appear throughout the Bible with regards to individuals.

Where does it appear with regard to individuals?

As comforting as it is to believe in the kind of free will that you claim to believe in, where God does not predestine anyone to Salvation, I can't find that viewpoint in scripture, anywhere.

Because you refuse to see it, by choosing to only see what you believe and thus you read it into all the verses that contradict it and even into those that make no mention of it one way or another.

Because I don't limit him to one location in time?

Because you say it is impossible for Him to work His will without knowing the future exhaustively or definitively.

I don't understand how God's mind works. Do you?

I have the mind of Christ, according to Scripture. But that's irrelevant. If we can understand the concept of God outside of time so too could those to whom He spoke during Biblical times. He would not have needed to "dumb it down."

He didn't literally change his mind, it was an emphasis of the sadness that he felt.

So God said He would destroy them, and then did not, but He didn't change His mind?

Yes.

So why do you claim He is unable to do His will without full knowledge of the future? Why do you deny He is free to create something new?

Yes, but I believe that that's more limited than you do. A man who is a slave to sin cannot simply choose Christ, Christ must die for him and pay his debt (After which point it would be unjust for God to demand double jeopardy and send him to Hell, one reason why Limited Atonement is a Biblical proposition)). A man who is dead in his sin cannot simply choose to live again, otherwise he wouldn't be dead.

And a man who is dead to sin cannot choose to live in it again.

But man is free to choose to accept His gift of Life, even if He cannot choose to make himself alive.

And a slave to Christ cannot simply choose to return to slavery in sin. He's already a slave to Christ. So a Christian cannot choose to commit apostasy, otherwise he wouldn't really be a Christian in the first place.

I agree.

That said, I don't reject free will entirely. The Bible is clear that a Christian has a way out of any temptation, but that he can also succumb to sin. Unbelievers can choose not to murder people, although they will never make that choice for Christ's sake, but always with some kind of selfish motivation (Not wanting to go to jail, appeasement of their own conscience, desire to have good standing in the community.)

I agree.

And exc.

Do you mean "etc," as in "et cetera"?

Not with modern weapons of war.

Are you sure of that?

 

[Nang]

Not knowing the future does not preclude Him from not knowing His plans for it.

You then make God out to be merely a "wishful thinker!"

You have made it that He must be able to see the future which is putting a limit upon Him.

No. Not knowing the future is limiting and less than Godly.

[Jesus]"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you."[/Jesus]

This only tells us that because they rejected Him they did not believe Him. There is no implication or inference that they were elected to not believe.

Faith to believe God, is the gift of God's grace. Anyone who does not believe God proves they are not the recipients of God's grace. All men "reject" God by nature. Only those whose hearts have been changed by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, CAN believe. Your view is fallacious, backwards, unbiblical, and false.

Nang

 

[Lighthouse]

You then make God out to be merely a "wishful thinker!"

No. Not knowing the future is limiting and less than Godly.

Faith to believe God, is the gift of God's grace. Anyone who does not believe God proves they are not the recipients of God's grace. All men "reject" God by nature. Only those whose hearts have been changed by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, CAN believe. Your view is fallacious, backwards, unbiblical, and false.

Nang

Thank you for supporting your argument with Scripture... oh, wait...

 

[Nang]

Thank you for supporting your argument with Scripture... oh, wait...

What a lame response . . .

You presented and badly interpreted only one scripture in your post, to which I gave proper answer.

You are worse than a bad joke.

Nang

 

[leuchtturm]

RPfor2016, I think it is pretty bold to come to a Bob Enyart friendly forum and start posting like you did. I can honestly say that I do not agree with everything he preaches but I do respect him and the forum. My respect for Pastor Enyart is greatly increased when he posted in this thread.

 

[Christian Liberty]

RPfor2016, I think it is pretty bold to come to a Bob Enyart friendly forum and start posting like you did. I can honestly say that I do not agree with everything he preaches but I do respect him and the forum. My respect for Pastor Enyart is greatly increased when he posted in this thread.

I did gain some respect when he responded to me in person...

That said, I don't really give a crap what people think of me. Its not my concern.

 

[leuchtturm]

I did gain some respect when he responded to me in person...

That said, I don't really give a crap what people think of me. Its not my concern.

Yeah, I really thought that was really cool when he responded. Kinda makes me want to pay closer attention to him. Although I do my best to try and respect everyone Paster Enyart really earned it here.

Now, from my understanding you are 18 when I was that age I also felt that I didn't give a "what ever" about what people thought, I think as you get older you will find you have to care what people think to Survive in this world. You make me reminisce about those idealistic early college years.

 

[MarkA]

What dilemma?

the dilemma of God having to continue to create based on what man does after he was done doing so.

was that supposition not made clear in my post?

if so, I apologize for my own failure to articulate.

 

[Letsargue]

the dilemma of God having to continue to create based on what man does after he was done doing so.

was that supposition not made clear in my post?

if so, I apologize for my own failure to articulate.

Just Where is your ( Evidence / Word of God ) that God “has continued” to “Create” anything sense AD70??? – Faith is the ( Evidence ) remember, - and it comes from the Word of God!!! – So show us all your great ( Evidence ) that God is, or has, for the ( Past two thousand years )!! – Come On!! - Let's see it, and read it, and worship it also!!!!

Paul – 072913

 

[Lighthouse]

What a lame response . . .

You presented and badly interpreted only one scripture in your post, to which I gave proper answer.

You are worse than a bad joke.

Nang

You are a fool.

And you're also so stupid you didn't realize someone else presented the verse [they gave the wrong location, and I corrected, but it was their argument that brought the verse into play].

And unless you can show that I badly misinterpreted it you should keep your mouth shut, because an argument is invalid if you don't support it.

Hint: I supported mine with the context of the verse in question.

the dilemma of God having to continue to create based on what man does after he was done doing so.

1. Who said God has to continue to create? We only said He could if He so desired.
2. Where does the Bible say God was done creating?
3. God's ability to create more has nothing to do with man's actions; you misread something somewhere.

was that supposition not made clear in my post?

if so, I apologize for my own failure to articulate.

Your failure to comprehend is the bigger issue for you.

 

[serpentdove]

...As for Enyart, he's both heretical in his theology (Open theism) and politically nuts...

By the way, how many hairs are on the boogy man's head? Enyart.

As a reminder, instant e-mail for new posts is inop.

I don't think you'll be able to carry on a dialogue here but I recommend you order the printed version of this debate.

 

[MarkA]

was that supposition not made clear in my post?

if so, I apologize for my own failure to articulate.

Your failure to comprehend is the bigger issue for you.

you sound like a very wise, patient and caring young man.

I hope you don't think that people with different views about God's creation was a detriment, since that is what makes it so intriguing and vast in the first place!

 

[Letsargue]

you sound like a very wise, patient and caring young man.

I hope you don't think that people with different views about God's creation was a detriment, since that is what makes it so intriguing and vast in the first place!

It’s either the “WAY” God said, or you call God a Liar!! – So have it your ~way!! – You just called Him a liar, by allowing such ( Division ) in God’s Doctrine.

Paul – 073013

 

[Bob Enyart]

Hi Nang. You wrote of me, inexplicably:

What you actually teach, is that God has no purposes, goals, nor intents.

I don't understand how you can write such a thing Nang.

Aside from being completely, utterly the opposite of what I've been teaching in hundreds of Bible studies and broadcasts, it's somewhat hurtful that you'd say such a thing.

I don't get it.

In Christ,
-Bob E.

 

[Bob Enyart]

(( Again ))
( Spit )!!!
((( "Blind fools who are double minded )))
((((( A Fool )))))
(( "Heart" ))
(( flattery with his lips ))
( his heart spits )
((( like God said )))!!
( You )
(( ME ))
( Spit )

Letsargue, have you ever heard of the LISP programming language?

-Bob Enyart

 

[Lighthouse]

Letsargue, have you ever heard of the LISP programming language?

-Bob Enyart

Did Alan Turing come up with that?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Bob- If God doesn't know the future, can he make mistakes?

 

[Nang]

Hi Nang. You wrote of me, inexplicably:


I don't understand how you can write such a thing Nang.

Aside from being completely, utterly the opposite of what I've been teaching in hundreds of Bible studies and broadcasts, it's somewhat hurtful that you'd say such a thing.

I don't get it.

In Christ,
-Bob E.

Bob,

Are you claiming that during all these years of your ministry you have been teaching God sovereignly has ordained 100% of all events that have ever occurred, and accurately predicted via holy revelation (scripture) 100% of all that is yet to occur; thereby evidencing He is the powerful producer of all of history according to such omniscience . . . due to the fact that His nature and attributes has always possessed 100% knowledge of all such?

Gee. How did I get you so wrong?

Nang

 

[Vaquero45]

Bob,

Are you claiming that during all these years of your ministry you have been teaching God sovereignly has ordained 100% of all events that have ever occurred, and accurately predicted via holy revelation (scripture) 100% of all that is yet to occur; thereby evidencing He is the powerful producer of all of history according to such omniscience . . . due to the fact that His nature and attributes has always possessed 100% knowledge of all such?

Gee. How did I get you so wrong?

Nang

That was AWESOMELY random Nang! My hat is off to you for keeping it unpredictable! (or in your view my hat should be off to God for what you scribbled here, but, you get it, right?)
Now maybe you could come back to Earth and actually address the question posed to you? It was a good one, you made a very wild accusation and should back it up or apologize and eject.

 

[Letsargue]

Letsargue, have you ever heard of the LISP programming language?

-Bob Enyart

I read God / Christ!!!! - Not foolishness that can be "Tacked" to an enemy like a brand of spit. - That's what the fools did to Jesus!!! -- Like all unlearned who cannot give CHRIST for an Answer, there is everything Else!!! - What was the excuse for the fools crucifying Jesus?? - NO Answer, Just Lies!!! --- (( LISP )) - Is that God??? -- I failed English big time, So What?

Paul -- 080113