I just hear this: Why was Satan told to partake of the ground?

[Ps82]

It was on a commercial on TV for some other cause and no link to read an article; so, what I will write are my own ideas.
Well, I have a suggestion based on what I've gathered from scripture.

Satan's link happened in Genesis 3:14. Follow my thought within [...]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent [SATAN], "Because You have done this [TEMPTED AND PERSUADED EVE and Adam TO SIN], you art cursed above [MORE THAN] all cattle, and above [MORE THAN] every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt you eat [PARTAKE OF] all the days of your life [cattle and other beast of the field partake of the fruit of the ground ... but you have permission to partake of the DUST].

Hopefully you are following my train of thought.

I will tell you I do consider symbolism which I find is quite eye opening when one begins to see it. KJV used 'ground' to translated scripture. I suggest that ground could represent certain elements of creation. Above the translators made an effort to distinguish between ground and dust for a reason.

Since the body of humanity was formed from the specific elements of creation called ground, I began to wonder what was the difference between dust and ground. Humanity was already connected to the ground due to the make up of the body. So???

Well, over time I realized that "water" is associated with spiritual life in many instances. Then I began to see that DUST would be elements void of water / life! Satan had been both cursed to partake of the lifeless bodies of man and maybe ??? other dead things ??? It was a curse in that he was lowered in status to dwell among mankind...yet, the curse also gave him a "privilege" so to speak.

Then one day I read an account where Satan argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body. I always ask why.
It hit me. Satan thought he had a right to possess the dust of the body of Moses because Moses had committed a great sin at the ROCK of Horeb. Satan thought that he owned Moses.

In what way? My thoughts: All sinners who have never made Christ their intercessor are LOST SOULS. Satan has a right to their dust/lifeless elements of creation and so goes Satan at the end of times goes those lost souls still attached to the cursed dust.

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man, one of the princes. This is describing what happens when God is ready to make things new. It is called the Lake of Fire or the Second Death. Second death for humanity and the 'first death' for Satan. So, Satan and humanity do meat the same death in the end.

Fear the Lord who can destroy body and soul ... Accept the gift of salvation our Lord can provide. Amen

 

[Ps82]

Thanks for reading Bradley D.

 

[7djengo7]

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man

Psalm 82 does not say Satan will die like a man.

 

[7djengo7]

Thanks for reading Bradley D.

Don't you know how to tag TOL users, so that they might get notifications that you are talking about, or addressing them? Don't just write their name; instead, use the @ symbol: not Ps82, but instead, @Ps82.

 

[Derf]

Psalm 82 does not say Satan will die like a man.

i think you read that wrong. it was supposed to be "@Ps82 says that Satan will die like a man."

 

[Derf]

It was on a commercial on TV for some other cause and no link to read an article; so, what I will write are my own ideas.
Well, I have a suggestion based on what I've gathered from scripture.

Satan's link happened in Genesis 3:14. Follow my thought within [...]

And the LORD God said unto the serpent [SATAN], "Because You have done this [TEMPTED AND PERSUADED EVE and Adam TO SIN], you art cursed above [MORE THAN] all cattle, and above [MORE THAN] every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and DUST shalt you eat [PARTAKE OF] all the days of your life [cattle and other beast of the field partake of the fruit of the ground ... but you have permission to partake of the DUST].

Hopefully you are following my train of thought.

I will tell you I do consider symbolism which I find is quite eye opening when one begins to see it. KJV used 'ground' to translated scripture. I suggest that ground could represent certain elements of creation. Above the translators made an effort to distinguish between ground and dust for a reason.

Since the body of humanity was formed from the specific elements of creation called ground, I began to wonder what was the difference between dust and ground. Humanity was already connected to the ground due to the make up of the body. So???

Well, over time I realized that "water" is associated with spiritual life in many instances. Then I began to see that DUST would be elements void of water / life! Satan had been both cursed to partake of the lifeless bodies of man and maybe ??? other dead things ??? It was a curse in that he was lowered in status to dwell among mankind...yet, the curse also gave him a "privilege" so to speak.

Then one day I read an account where Satan argued with an angel of the Lord for the possession of Moses's dead body. I always ask why.
It hit me. Satan thought he had a right to possess the dust of the body of Moses because Moses had committed a great sin at the ROCK of Horeb. Satan thought that he owned Moses.

In what way? My thoughts: All sinners who have never made Christ their intercessor are LOST SOULS. Satan has a right to their dust/lifeless elements of creation and so goes Satan at the end of times goes those lost souls still attached to the cursed dust.

Ps 82 tells us that Satan will die like a man, one of the princes. This is describing what happens when God is ready to make things new. It is called the Lake of Fire or the Second Death. Second death for humanity and the 'first death' for Satan. So, Satan and humanity do meat the same death in the end.

Fear the Lord who can destroy body and soul ... Accept the gift of salvation our Lord can provide. Amen

I think you are on to something, but it isn't the bodies Satan is most concerned about, rather it is mankind itself. A few verses later God tells Adam, "You are dust." So Satan became the thing that wants to kill all of mankind AND prevent them from being resurrected. That last part fits with your proposal about the bodies of mankind--if they belong to Satan, then God doesn't have permission to resurrect them again. However, when Christ gained the victory over death, resurrection became assured for all mankind--Satan was defeated; his head was crushed.

 

[Ps82]

I think you are on to something, but it isn't the bodies Satan is most concerned about, rather it is mankind itself.

Oh yes... Satan knows how to harm humanity and he is out to get us.

A few verses later God tells Adam, "You are dust." So Satan became the thing that wants to kill all of mankind AND prevent them from being resurrected.

You have it! But it was God's plan of how to rid creation of angels and men who reject Him as their savior. God commanded that Satan and mankind to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their lives. Humanity partakes of the dust until his first mortal death. Then the living spiritual part of humanity go to 'storage places' prepared for them. Places separating the 'saved' from the lost.'

But Satan still roams the world to which he became attached by God's command for him to partake of its elements/ground for the rest of his life.

Yes, it is the dust that takes man to his first mortal death ... This is the ground which was cursed for man's sake. Those 'saved' will shed that body of cursed ground and get a new eternal one ... but those never circumcised from that cursed dust by our risen Lord will experience the second death. Man has a first and second death but the second death is for men and angels together. So goes the dust so goes the lost souls of men and angels/Satan.

Is there any wonder that Satan argued with an angel for the dead body of Moses. Moses had sinned at least a couple of big sins ... and Satan thought he had a right to partake of that cursed dust so that Moses would go to the Lake of Fire with him. But the angel simply said: May the Lord rebuke you... IOW, it is Lord Jesus who decides to rescue mankind from our sins and takes us to his kingdom. God did curse the ground for our sake and for the sake of his perfected kingdom.

That last part fits with your proposal about the bodies of mankind--if they belong to Satan, then God doesn't have permission to resurrect them again.

Yes, guess that is the way to put it. Sounds good at the moment.

However, when Christ gained the victory over death, resurrection became assured for all mankind

Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.

--Satan was defeated; his head was crushed.

Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD. Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.

Nice conversation. Thanks

 

[7djengo7]

I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men.

You've already been notified at least once as to the falsity (and obvious baselessness) of your claim that God, in Psalm 82, told Satan he would die like a man. You have remained silent to the objections, and have decided, despite them -- and despite your failure and inability to answer them -- to simply continue asserting your falsehood. You're stopping your ears and playing make-believe, because you so want your falsehood to be true, and that's self-destructive behavior.

 

[Derf]

Oh yes... Satan knows how to harm humanity and he is out to get us.

You have it! But it was God's plan of how to rid creation of angels and men who reject Him as their savior. God commanded that Satan and mankind to partake of the dust of the ground for the rest of their lives. Humanity partakes of the dust until his first mortal death.

"Mortal death" means "deathly death". I don't understand why both terms are needed. "First" is an interesting adjective to use on "deathly death". It makes it seem like there's a "second" deathly death expected. But God only told Adam he would "surely die" (or "dying he would die", which might account for "deathly death").

Then the living spiritual part of humanity go to 'storage places' prepared for them. Places separating the 'saved' from the lost.'

But isn't our salvation only realized in the resurrection? If so, then there are no saved dead people. Once you are resurrected, then you are experiencing salvation, right?

But Satan still roams the world to which he became attached by God's command for him to partake of its elements/ground for the rest of his life.

Yes, it is the dust that takes man to his first mortal death ... This is the ground which was cursed for man's sake. Those 'saved' will shed that body of cursed ground and get a new eternal one ... but those never circumcised from that cursed dust by our risen Lord will experience the second death. Man has a first and second death but the second death is for men and angels together.

The second death appears to be necessary because the first death is no longer available--it has been defeated by the resurrection.

Angels might participate, but it isn't called "second death" for them, since they never had a first death.

So goes the dust so goes the lost souls of men and angels/Satan.

Is there any wonder that Satan argued with an angel for the dead body of Moses. Moses had sinned at least a couple of big sins ... and Satan thought he had a right to partake of that cursed dust so that Moses would go to the Lake of Fire with him. But the angel simply said: May the Lord rebuke you... IOW, it is Lord Jesus who decides to rescue mankind from our sins and takes us to his kingdom. God did curse the ground for our sake and for the sake of his perfected kingdom.

Yes, guess that is the way to put it. Sounds good at the moment.

Yes. It is the will of God for all to be saved and he has provided THE WAY. But there is something called man's freewill. Now there is the rub.

Why is it a rub?

Something new to ponder. Yes, but I say Satan may have been set up for that defeat when God associated him with the cursed ground and then at his trial in Ps 82 told him that he would die like men. Like one of the prince/leaders among men. IOW, the small and great who have rejected HIM as LORD.

This seems to be the reason why a second type of death is necessary, because after people have been raised from.the dead, they still don't acknowledge Him as lord (i.e., as the one who gets to make the rules.)

Christ accomplished his roll of death on the cross and the miracle of his blood to overcome death in the dust and hell.

Agreed, although I'm unsure what you mean by "the miracle of his blood."

Nice conversation. Thanks