God bless you. I do not know what you are referring to.
I have a question about observing God’s commands in light of New Testament scriptures
- Thread starter Jacob
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God bless you. I do not know what you are referring to.
:thumb:
Thank you, [MENTION=2589]Clete[/MENTION] !
It is so refreshing to have bible believing men such as yourself here that can explain grace in no uncertain terms.
Christ did not die so a bad man could be a little better.
Christ died so dead men could live.
Thank you, [MENTION=2589]Clete[/MENTION] !
It is so refreshing to have bible believing men such as yourself here that can explain grace in no uncertain terms.
Christ did not die so a bad man could be a little better.
Christ died so dead men could live.
Ben Masada
New member
Well, I have a different opinion. If you believe the Prophets of the Most High, they were inspired to teach that no one can die for the sins of another. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18:20) Here is why Jesus died: Once, when he was entering Jerusalem, his disciples, as they had planned, they got together to acclaim Jesus king of the Jews at the entrance of Jerusalem. It was catastrophic. Even some of the Pharisees tried to save him from being arrested by the Romans by asking him to stop his disciples or he could be arrested. Probably, Jesus was enjoying the parade and said he couldn't or the stones would shout themselves. The end result was that later he was arrested on the charge of insurrection and the verdict on the top of his cross red INRI. That's why Jesus died and not so that others could live. (Luke 19:37-40) Now, whenever you think to blame the Jews for Jesus' death, think again and blame his disciples. They were the ones who caused the death of Jesus.
dodge
New member
Rom 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
God's Truth
New member
What does that mean a Christian or Jewish question? Tell me what the ceremonial/purification works were and what they meant.
God's Truth
New member
Explain how they are teaching tools and a shadow.
God's Truth
New member
The Sabbath day was just a shadow, a teaching tool. Jesus is our Sabbath. The observance of days is worthless now.
Are you speaking of a particular Torah portion?
I am currently on the one-year Torah reading cycle. Each Shabbat a Torah portion is read. This is the Torah portion that many study during the week.
Explain how what are teaching tools and a shadow?
beameup
New member
There seems to be a Messianic Jewish movement afoot in these last days. I don't object to a born-again Jew wanting to get in touch with his/her "roots". But, "Hebrew Roots" are not for everybody in the Body of Christ. There is a lot that can be learned from an overview of Judaism, especially the "Feasts". However, Gentiles should beware of some "cultish" elements in some of these "Hebrew Roots" congregations. Remember, Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles!
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10
HisServant
New member
The other issue about Messianic Judiasm.... is that Judiasm was the biggest failure in all of the Old Testament. Why would someone want to hitch a ride on that cart? The Jews had EVERYTHING.. they had God living with them for a time, etc. Yet they turned their back on him for idols at every turn, and the Rabbi's made it so legalistic that they forgot why the laws were given in the first place.
I only have pity for the Jews, and the Holy Spirit tells me to stay away from their customs and beliefs.
You asked me a question, I answered it and instead of responding to my answer, you simply ask the same question again. Very frustrating.
You asked...
"If you are not obedient to God's Law what are you obedient to?"
I answered...
"The law has nothing to say to me! What does the law demand of those who have been executed? NOTHING! I have been crucified in Christ! It is no longer I who live but Christ lives His life through me BY FAITH - NOT THE LAW! The law KILLS but the Spirit (capital S) gives life! To follow the law is to resurrect your flesh and Christ will profit you nothing. Christ is not at all interested in helping you live a righteous life. He is willing to live it through you, by faith. Faith in what? In the biblical facts concerning your position in Christ, if indeed you are in Him. You are righteous, in Him, and cannot be more (or less) so. You are a citizen of Heaven and have been clothed with His righteousness by faith apart from the law and seated with Him in the Heavenly places. There are many such biblical facts that we are taught exclusively by Paul. It is our belief in them that is the key to seeing righteousness lived out in our daily walk. We believe that we are righteous because God has imputed His righteousness to our account. That's the fact. It is for us to believe it and for Him to accomplish it."
You asked...
"Do you believe new covenant believers are to be obedient to God?"
I answered...
"New covenant believers, as you mean the term, do not exist. Well, they exist, but not on this Earth. The New Covenant you speak of has to do with Israel, which has, for now, been cut off (Romans 9-11). God will one day turn back again to Israel but until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25)."
Then instead of reading any of that through and spending even a short moment to think it through and respond to it, you ignored it all and responded to the whole post by repeating your position and asking the same loaded question you began the thread with and that my post answered directly...
"The new covenant has already come. It came in Jesus. He saved you from the penalty and the power of sin. What commands of God do you obey in the new covenant?"
If you want to have a conversation then its a too way street! If you don't know how to respond then say so, don't just pretend like I didn't say anything. It's rude and annoying and a waste of my time.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Yes, and I said that if you think your relationship with God is dependent upon your obedience then you're a legalist and then you agreed that your relationship with God was so dependent. Words mean things, Jacob. Don't be scared to accept a title if it fits. Does a leopard change his spots by virtue of denying their existence?
Obey Him by believing what the bible teaches! Paul tells us over and over and over again not to allow yourself to put under the law. It's the theme of his whole ministry. And yet, you somehow know better! Jesus' living His life for (through) you isn't good enough. God imputing Christ's death to your account, isn't sufficient for you. You want to say to Jesus, "Well, thanks for dying on the cross and all, I really appreciate it and think it helped me out a bunch but I'm going to go ahead and tithe and observe this Sabbath day over here and I'm going to put this list of ten rules up in my house to help remind me of what to do and what not to do. Oh! And don't worry! I'm going to make sure my male children are circumcised too!"
Resting in Him,
Clete
Remember that there is now no distinction...
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Oh, what a great way to state it!
That's the gospel! That's PAUL'S gospel, the Gospel of Grace!
The Kingdom Gospel pertained to the Jews, which they rejected by both executing the King and by stoning Stephen after he, using "irresistible wisdom", testified to the leaders of Israel of their risen Messiah. God wanted to give Israel a Kingdom but they would not OBEY God and instead did evil in His sight and so God repented of the good with which He said He would bless them (Jer. 18), cut them off and turned instead to the Gentiles through Paul (Acts 9 and Romans 9-11).
The Gospel of Grace is not about being obedient to a list of rules, its about calling upon the name of Jesus Christ for salvation, believing that Jesus died in your place, in payment for your sin and that God raised Him from the dead. In the Gospel of Grace there is but one rule - don't place yourself under the law! In the Gospel of Grace, you don't begin by putting your faith in Christ and then walk by the power of your flesh, which is what the law was all about - the flesh. You walk by the same means by which you began - faith. Grace starts and ends with faith and faith alone. It is for us to believe and for Christ to work - period.(Gal. 3)
For us to work to acquire or maintain our salvation (same thing) is to declare Christ's death on the cross insufficient and ineffective. It is to say that death is an insufficient payment to satisfy the demands of justice. It is, in effect, to declare that God is unjust! Just how many times should the law have to kill someone before they're satisfied that "it is finished"? (Galatians 2:20)
All of which I know you agree with entirely, Tambora. I just wanted to take the opportunity to spell it out again for the others reading the thread.
God bless you and thanks for the kind words!
Resting in Him,
Clete
God's Truth
New member
The Old Testament is just as useful to the Gentiles as it is to the Jews.
The whole Bible is about believing and obeying God.
God's Truth
New member
Explain how the ceremonial/purification works are just teaching tools and a shadow.
God's Truth
New member
Paul is and was the apostle to the Jews too.
Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.
Please stop saying Paul was not an apostle to the Jews. That one scripture alone proves you wrong.
beameup
New member
I mentioned that this is a growing movement in these days. I should have said that this is a growing movement in these LAST DAYS. When the Body of Christ is removed from the earth, then God will again turn to His People in order to fulfill all the prophecies concerning the Second Coming of Jesus. There are 300+ Messianic Congregations in Israel and the "movement" is fast growing. This is "setting the stage" for end-times when "all Israel will be saved" (see Romans ch. 11). Remember how Jesus explained how the entire O.T. was about himself? Jewish believers are learning these things presently.
God's Truth
New member
I can hardly believe that you have no understanding about the NEW COVENANT and say you have no part of it.
If you believe in Jesus---then you have partaken in the NEW COVENANT.
If you come to Jesus for forgiveness of sins---then you have come to the COVENANT of his blood.
His blood is what you have to come to when you want to be washed.