ECT I Come Quickly

[genuineoriginal]

Do you not even know that the prophecy of the 70th week of Daniel was given while the nation of Israel was already in exile from the land of promise?

What was Daniel reading about before he started the prayer that prompted God to provide the prophecy of the 70*7 years?

Daniel 9:2 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.​

Did Daniel read anything to suggest that the children of Israel would be back in the land of promise?

Jeremiah 29:10 10 For thus saith the Lord, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.​

You don't even have a basic knowledge about the things of which you pose to be an expert!

I have the basic knowledge of the entire Bible as well as the advanced knowledge of the prophecies in the Bible.

You are just complaining about what I am saying because it is pointing out the flaws in Dispensationalist Eschatology.

 

[JudgeRightly]

He is here in our hearts, so he is here,

Now you're moving the goalposts. I almost fell for it.

You said: "We are His body."

To which I replied: "We are not Him."

And you came back with: "He's here in our hearts, so He is here." Which is not even close to the argument that "We are His body."

Jesus is in our hearts, but He is no longer here on Earth, because He left, and He hasn't RETURNED, which is what He promised He would do. If he never left, then He can never return, because in order to return, He would need to leave first.

So are you making the argument that He has never left? or are you making the argument that He has come back as in into our hearts?

The former is not true, because the Twelve saw Him ascend into heaven, saying "If I don't leave, I can't send the Holy Spirit."

The latter is not true, because it would mean that He has returned millions of times over for every person who has become a believer in Him.

The only logical conclusion is that Jesus left (Acts 1:9), sent the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4), who was put in our hearts by Jesus (2 Cor 1:22), and is currently waiting to return after the "fullness of the Gentiles" is reached (Rom 11:25), which is when God will resume His program for Israel.

 

[marhig]

Now you're moving the goalposts. I almost fell for it.

You said: "We are His body."

To which I replied: "We are not Him."

And you came back with: "He's here in our hearts, so He is here." Which is not even close to the argument that "We are His body."

Jesus is in our hearts, but He is no longer here on Earth, because He left, and He hasn't RETURNED, which is what He promised He would do. If he never left, then He can never return, because in order to return, He would need to leave first.

So are you making the argument that He has never left? or are you making the argument that He has come back as in into our hearts?

The former is not true, because the Twelve saw Him ascend into heaven, saying "If I don't leave, I can't send the Holy Spirit."

The latter is not true, because it would mean that He has returned millions of times over for every person who has become a believer in Him.

The only logical conclusion is that Jesus left (Acts 1:9), sent the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:1-4), who was put in our hearts by Jesus (2 Cor 1:22), and is currently waiting to return after the "fullness of the Gentiles" is reached (Rom 11:25), which is when God will resume His program for Israel.

I can't make you see only God can show you. Jesus is here, we are his body, through us he is gathering his people, just as a tree grows, and the more it grows, the stronger it becomes and the more branches are formed and added to the tree, and as it grows bigger, it spreads out and reaches further each branch producing fruit. This is as it is for the body of Christ, and as the root grows and goes deeper, the stronger the tree becomes. This is like the church and Christ is the cornerstone and those who truly belong to him, are rooted in him, and produce fruit through him by the power of the Spirit. And his life can be seen in and through those who are truly of his body. And they will be turning from sin and living by the will of God truly following Christ Jesus and through him we can overcome the world.

I have to go and make my husband's tea, speak to you soon God willing

 

[Jerry Shugart]

What was Daniel reading about before he started the prayer that prompted God to provide the prophecy of the 70*7 years?

Why do you change the subject? You didn't even know that the prophecy of the 70 Weeks was given to Daniel when the nation was already in exile.

Will you admit that Israel was already in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why do you change the subject? You didn't even know that the prophecy of the 70 Weeks was given to Daniel when the nation was already in exile.

Will you admit that Israel was already in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

I am much more aware of the times when the children of Israel are in exile than you are.
I can understand why the children of Israel are sent into exile and the fact that the great tribulation is the longest period of exile of the children of Israel.
I did not change the subject: I am constantly having to redirect you to consider the context of the prophecy of 70*7 years, since the context invalidates the Dispensationalist interpretation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I am much more aware of the times when the children of Israel are in exile than you are.

Were they in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks? You said that if they did not do the things which Daniel revealed at Daniel 9:24 then they would be exiled:

If they did not complete those six tasks, they would be exiled from the land of promise.

You prove once again that you know nothing about the things of which you claim to be an expert because when Daniel wrote his prophecy of the 70 Weeks the nation of Israel was already in exile! Besides that, in order to cling to your wild theories you say that the following answer given to Daniel was conditional in nature despite the fact that there is no condition mentioned:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" (Dan.9:24).​

No condition is mentioned here but in order to cling to your fables you must make it conditional!

Now I will ask you again:

Were they in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

 

[genuineoriginal]

You said that if they did not do the things which Daniel revealed at Daniel 9:24 then they would be exiled:

Yes, exile from the land of promise is the standard punishment God gives to the children of Israel for willful disobedience.

You prove once again that you know nothing about the things of which you claim to be an expert because when Daniel wrote his prophecy of the 70 Weeks the nation of Israel was already in exile!

When the children of Israel were originally told about being exiled from the land of promise for willful disobedience, they had not even entered into the land of promise, they were still in the wilderness.

Besides that, in order to cling to your wild theories you say that the following answer given to Daniel was conditional in nature despite the fact that there is no condition mentioned:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" (Dan.9:24).​

No condition is mentioned here but in order to cling to your fables you must make it conditional!

You seem to think that the prophecy had no relationship to the prayer that Daniel had just got done praying when the prophecy was given as an answer to that prayer.

Now I will ask you again:

Were they in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

God told the children of Israel that He would exile them and bring the land into desolation for disobedience before they had even come into the land.

Leviticus 25:1-2 1 And the Lord spake unto Moses in mount Sinai, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the Lord.​

Leviticus 26:27-33 27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; 28 Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins. 29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. 31 And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 32 And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Were they in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Were they in exile when Daniel was given the prophecy of the 70 Weeks?

Had they entered the land in the prophecy of Leviticus 26:27-33?

Maybe you should state what you think you are gaining by asking a question about something that makes no difference?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Had they entered the land in the prophecy of Leviticus 26:27-33?

Maybe you should state what you think you are gaining by asking a question about something that makes no difference?

We are talking about if they were in exile at the time when Daniel received the prophecy of the 70 Weeks.

If you don't want to answer just say so and if you don't have an answer just say so.

But cease from trying to change the subject!

 

[genuineoriginal]

We are talking about if they were in exile at the time when Daniel received the prophecy of the 70 Weeks.

If you don't want to answer just say so and if you don't have an answer just say so.

But cease from trying to change the subject!

You still need to say why you think it matters when it makes no difference at all.

The punishment declared for the children of Israel in many, many verses is exile from the land of promise.
This was even declared before the children of Israel ever set foot in the land of promise.
Why would you think it would make any difference to the prophecy of 70*7 years whether the children of Israel were ending one exile period or whether they were in the land of promise between exile periods?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You still need to say why you think it matters when it makes no difference at all.

Then why did you say that if Israel did not do the things mentioned at Daniel 9:24 that they would be exiled from the promised land?

Of course they were already in exile at the time when Daniel received the prophecy of the 70 Weeks.

Your knowledge about the end times is seriously flawed because you do not even know the basic facts about the 70th Week of Daniel.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Then why did you say that if Israel did not do the things mentioned at Daniel 9:24 that they would be exiled from the promised land?

The prophecy of the 70*7 years speaks of a time that the children of Israel will be allowed to dwell in the land of promise.
This would not be a true return to the land of promise because the children of Israel would have to live in the land under the rule of the Gentiles.

The six tasks given in Daniel 9:24 are tasks that the children of Israel are to complete during the 70*7 years, or they will be exiled after the end of that time.
The Olivet Discourse prophecy was spoken when there were only 3-1/2 years left to complete the 70*7 year period.
Jesus could see that the children of Israel would fail to complete their six tasks, and that is why He prophesied to Jerusalem that she would be left desolate.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

he six tasks given in Daniel 9:24 are tasks that the children of Israel are to complete during the 70*7 years

Again, you demonstrate that you don't know even the basic things in regard to the prophecy of 70 Weeks.

It will be 70 weeks of years from the time when the commandment goes out to restore Jerusalem when these things will be fulfilled:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" (Dan.9:24).​

The Hebrew word translated "are determined" means "to be determined, be decreed, be settled, be marked out."

It is decreed so it will happen no matter what so it is clearly not a "conditional" statement, as you imagine.

I am through on this thread. I will not discuss the chronology of the end times with you because you just make it up as you go.

 

[genuineoriginal]

It will be 70 weeks of years from the time when the commandment goes out to restore Jerusalem when these things will be fulfilled:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy" (Dan.9:24).​

The Hebrew word translated "are determined" means "to be determined, be decreed, be settled, be marked out."

It is decreed so it will happen no matter what so it is clearly not a "conditional" statement, as you imagine.

You seem to be having problems understanding the difference between God setting aside a specific period of time for the tasks to be done in and the fate of the children of Israel for failure to complete those tasks within that time.

The conditional part of the prophecy does not involve the set amount of time.
The conditional part of the prophecy involves whether the children of Israel will be exiled from the land of promise after the set amount of time.

You keep wandering off of the path into the weeds by your refusal to look at the truth of the prophecy.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I can't make you see only God can show you.

:AMR:

Jesus is here,

Doesn't mean He has returned.

we are his body, through us he is gathering his people,

And? He hasn't returned yet.

just as a tree grows, and the more it grows, the stronger it becomes and the more branches are formed and added to the tree, and as it grows bigger, it spreads out and reaches further each branch producing fruit.

Which has nothing to do with Christ's return.

This is as it is for the body of Christ, and as the root grows and goes deeper, the stronger the tree becomes. This is like the church and Christ is the cornerstone and those who truly belong to him, are rooted in him, and produce fruit through him by the power of the Spirit. And his life can be seen in and through those who are truly of his body.

And? None of this has to do with Christ's return.

[QUTOE]And they will be turning from sin and living by the will of God truly following Christ Jesus and through him we can overcome the world.[/QUOTE]

Your entire post is nothing but nice-sounding platitudes, which have little to nothing to do with the subject of the thread, which is Christ's imminent return.

Would you like to discuss the topic of the thread now?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Your entire post is nothing but nice-sounding platitudes, which have little to nothing to do with the subject of the thread, which is Christ's imminent return.

Yes, when the Lord Jesus said "I come quickly" He was speaking of His imminent appearance to catch up those in the Body of Christ. And the Apostle John was waiting for that appearance because He expected that he would be caught up just like all of the members of the Body of Christ. Here are John's words in answer to the Lord's words that He will come quickly:

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus"​

(Rev.22:20).​

This proves that the Twelve are members of the Body of Christ.