Faith is believing God, not just believing that He merely exists, but Trusting in Him. When you truly trust in God, you submit your will to His. If you aren't submitted to the will of God, then you do NOT have FAITH in God. Faith-Trust-Believe are ALL interchangeable. When you have Faith, you believe God. When you Believe God, you Trust God. Without Faith it is Impossible to please God. I am not mixing Israel with Grace. I KNOW the difference, but you are taking true Faith off of the equation and I am not. Merely believing something is true, is NOT true Faith. Submission to it for Salvation is true Faith. I reject your definition of Faith as false Faith. Faith is like a blind man who is being told where he must go to get home. He must rely on the person telling him which way to go and that is what Faith in Christ is like. We are blind, but God directs our lives to accomplish the things that He wants to accomplish in us as we trust in Him.
Your sentiments here is common and understandable and wrong. Not entirely though. I get the feeling that much of the disagreement here is as much semantic as it is substantive. In other words, we may well be saying close to the same thing just in different ways.
Try as you might, the degree to which you place yourself under the law is the degree to which you do not trust God. Your will cannot be submitted to His. Your will must not be subjugated, it must be killed. You must not submit, you must die. What will does a dead man have to submit to another?
Galatians 2: 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
Indeed, you cannot live the Christian life! The harder you try, the more God Himself will see to it that you fail. You cannot improve, you cannot be better. To be disappointed in yourself is to have believed in yourself. To try to be better is to put your trust in your flesh and to resurrect that which was crucified in Christ.
The great open secret is to know and accept as true (faith) the biblical facts. The fact is that you, as a believer, are identified in Christ. You are a new creature IN HIM. In Him you are perfect. You are NOT flawed and forgiven because He is NOT flawed and forgiven. Your sin is only forgiven because it was punished IN HIM. You died in Him and the life you now live is Him living His life through you - by faith. Faith in what? Faith in the fact that these things are true! Belief in the fact that you are not being improved upon, you have been made complete and perfect in Him and that you have nothing to contribute to God's work, not only of salvation, but also of sanctification. For the same Spirit that saved you is also He that sanctifies you. (Galatians 3). Therefore, just as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him! (Col. 2:6).
You'll like reading the article posted in the open post of the following thread....
There IS a difference and it's clear. Merely believing that it's true that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead is not what's meant by believe, you must Trust in it, submit to it as the penalty for your sins. So it's not true that it's "Distinction without difference" because the difference is essential.
I agree that faith isn't mere intellectual acknowledgement but I feel strongly that what you are leaning into here is good works and to the degree that is the case is the degree to which you have submitted yourself to the law, whether you call it that or not.
You would be wrong, he is a Mid Acts Dispensationalist. I have been listening to him for years. James Vernon McGhee might be who you are thinking of. I have been through the Bible completely, twice with Les Feldick. He is the best Bible Teacher I have heard.
I am nearly done with the second time through with Les. If you give me a link, I will gladly go through the Bible with Bob Enyart. I find it hard to believe that anyone could beat Les with the amount of Bible cross references that he uses to show how it all fits perfectly. But I don't know this man. I am willing to listen for sure.
The place you should start with Bob is with "
The Plot".
I appreciate your willingness to admit your error. That is a mark of humility. He is not a 5 point Calvinist. I think Les does believe that God appoints all things, but he also believes in free will. He can't explain how both are happening at the same time. I agree 100%, but I also believe that God can change His mind on certain things that are not crucial to His over all plan. Of course He knows all things ahead of time, but God operates in the here and now when He relates directly with us.
If you stick around here for very long, you'll learn that the idea that God "knows all things ahead of time", to use your phrasing, comes from the same place that all five points of Calvinism come from. They share the exact same premise and are all wrong for the same reasons. There is no need to live with the contradiction, as Les was willing to do. The truth never contradicts itself.
Biblically, God knows, or is able to find out, all knowable information that He wants to know.
The following concepts are not taught in the bible....
- Exhaustive foreknowledge.
- Exhaustive predestination.
- Original Sin (i.e. as taught by Augustine, the Catholic Church, Luther, Calvin, etc, etc).
- The TULIP doctrines (i.e. all of them).
- Immutability.
- The Omni-doctrines (i.e. as taught by Augustine, the Catholic Church, Luther, Calvin, etc, etc).
- God is atemporal or exists outside of time.
I won't take the time here to make any arguments aimed at establishing these claims here. That can wait for another time, but I'll just say that all of these ideas, and others related to them, find their origin in Socrates, Aristotle and Plato, not the bible and they were imported into Christianity primarily by Augustine of Hippo.
I am very familiar with everything you said about The Kingdom Gospel vs The Gospel of Grace, I know that the Gospel of the Kingdom was for Israel to Repent, Be Baptized and Believe in their Messiah, Jesus and The Gospel of Grace is Romans 10:9,10, 13 and I Corinthians 15. I know all about that stuff, however, In Paul's writings he does indicate that we are saved by Faith in Christ and that If we will confess with our mouth, the Lord Jesus (That is to say, that Jesus is Lord and believe in our heart...) I guess if you don't believe in Lordship Salvation, I would disagree and maybe Les even agrees with you, but that's not what I see in Paul's writings. Many places I can cite and have already. How are you going to serve someone who is not the Lord God in your mind and heart and that you are not submitted to in Faith? Now, I do believe that most give an incomplete Gospel and say that you only need to believe in Jesus and never mention the Death and Resurrections, which is also an essential part of the Gospel. But I can't agree with you that we don't have to have Faith in Christ as the Lord. That's not Biblical even in Paul's writings to the Grace Age Church.
You cannot serve God! Stop trying! All such trying is fleshly and all that results from it is failure! You are not God's servant, you are His SON, you are in HIM. Your attempts to serve are worthless, just forget it. Christ has done the work and you have been declared righteous before Him by virtue of Christ's work, not your own. All that is left for you to do is to love God and say thank you!
Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
As far as the KJV, I do sometimes use the NKJV, but I have heard the opposite, that the NKJV is not based on the same Textus Receptus Manuscripts and that Westcott and Hort are corrupt. I have heard good arguments on both sides and honestly don't know who to believe.
Well, all you have to do to know that they're from the same text is to read them side by side but here's a quote from Chat GPT....
You said:
Is the KJV and the NKJV translated from the same texts?
ChatGPT said:
The KJV (King James Version) and the NKJV (New King James Version) are both translated from the Textus Receptus for the New Testament. However, there are some differences in their approach:
- KJV: For the Old Testament, it relies on the Masoretic Text, but occasionally incorporates readings from the Septuagint or Latin Vulgate where translators deemed it necessary.
- NKJV: Similarly uses the Masoretic Text for the Old Testament but includes updated references to the Dead Sea Scrolls and other sources for clarification. It also compares readings from the Septuagint, Vulgate, and other ancient versions more thoroughly.
The NKJV was designed to modernize the language of the KJV while staying faithful to its textual base, so the source texts are largely the same, but the translation philosophy is more updated.
The only people who will ever attempt to convince you that the NKJV is not translated from the same texts are the King James Only people. Translating it from the same texts into modern English was pretty much the entire premise behind the effort to create the New King James.
You can learn a gigantic amount about the King James Bible and about Bob Enyart's style of teaching from reading the following debate....
Is the King James Bible the Only Inspired Scripture on Earth Today? Battle Royale XIV
I would disagree with you on this point. I believe that confessing the Lord Jesus means that we are confessing Him as our Lord. "AND believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead..." That's what I believe that verse is saying in Romans 10:9,10,13...
That's fine except that this is not what the text says. You are reading your doctrine into the text. All the text supports is the concept of calling upon the name of the Lord for salvation. It does not say anything at all about making Him your Lord in the sense of trying your best not to sin and to perform good works.
That's not to say that we shouldn't avoid sin or that we aught not do good! (Romans 6) But if you think that doing so has anything to do with getting saved, then you've made a very big mistake and have yanked your flesh down off the cross!
I also disagree with you that Romans 4:5 means you don't have to have Faith in Jesus, I believe it is stating the exact opposite.
Huh?
Romans 4:5 explicitly states that all you have to have is belief and defines faith as belief. Verse six makes it even more undeniable...
Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works
It is the opposite of what James teaches...
James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Two different messages to two different groups of believers, one under grace, saved by faith alone apart from works, the other under law, saved by faith mixed with good works. (Galatians 2:6-9)
I absolutely agree that works have no part of Salvation, but Faith does and I think my definition of Faith is different than yours.
Okay, so think that through for a second.
You say, rightly, that works have no part in salvation but that faith does. That sounds terrific but your definition of faith has works added into it and so you sort of sneak works in through a back door, suggesting that there is no such thing as righteousness apart from good works.
Works are of the flesh and it is precisely our flesh which we must crucify. We mustn't attempt to modify our flesh, but to kill it. Faith, on the other hand, is accepting biblical facts as just that, facts. It is believing that what the bible teaches is true. That's what it is. Faith is not of the flesh and thus faith is NOT a work. When we believe that God died for our sin and that He was raised from the dead, God counts that faith as righteousness and we stand blameless before Him on that basis and that basis alone. Our standing before Him cannot be improved upon or added to and the same faith that saved us is the same faith the propels us along on our daily walk in Him. Faith works by love, not rules.
I encourage you (and myself) to do an in depth study on the word Faith, Believe, Trust and maybe even throw in the word Grace also. Grace is defined by many as "Unmerited favor". I would say that Grace is when God does something for you that you cannot do for yourself. We access this Grace through our Faith (Choice to Believe and Trust in God).
"Unmerited favor" is a heretical doctrine of Calvinism that teaches that God chose you by fiat, that He elected people arbitrarily (i.e. for no reason at all other than that He simply chose).
The term "grace" simply refers to God's willingness to save people from the punishment they deserve. God was not required to do anything related to what we would call the plan of salvation. He could have simply killed Adam and Eve for their rebellion and been done with it but He chose are more difficult, more costly path; a path that would cost Him a great deal of grief, pain and indeed His very life, but He chose to do it anyway because He saw that the result was worth the price and so decided to pay it. That decision is what grace is. God paid the price and He owns it, lock, stock and barrel. He owns both the debt and the account from which the debt will be paid. He, therefore, has the absolute right to apply payment to the debt at His own sole discretion and has decided, during this dispensation, to apply the shed blood of His only Son to those who respond to him by faith and believe that He became a man, died for their sin and rose from the dead. In other dispensations, His application was and will be different, having to do with things like the law and good works, et al, but, in any dispensation, all those who find themselves saved from an eternal Hell will ultimately have God's grace to thank for it.
Your last point is worded differently, but saying the same thing. Les puts it this way, that the Word Church means "A called out Assembly" and that there were Jewish Synagogues that trusted in Christ as their Lord, but yes operated under the Law and kept the Law. They still called them Synagogues and yes they were different than Grace Age Churches. They are the people who were the Judaizers who were trying to tell Paul's Converts to keep the Law along with Believing in Christ as Lord and that He died and rose again for our sins. I think we agree on this. But the point is Les does agree on this.
Excellent!
I think I would like to listen to your Bible Teacher you recommended, but I also think that You need to listen to Through the Bible with Les Feldick. I think he believes a lot more like you than you might know, but would give you a different perspective on things. Send me a link to Bob Enyart.
I enjoy listening to Les from time to time but anytime I've attempted to listen to him on a regular basis I find that I have a difficult time tolerating his pace. What he's saying is excellent but his delivery leaves much to be desired. That, by the way, is very much my own personal opinion. Other's just love everything about Les' style. I have an Aunt that listens to him on a daily basis and loves every second of it but she's also from Les' generation and likes the slower pace and sort of plodding (for want of a better term - I'm really trying not to be insulting!) delivery.
I like talking to you. We have a lot in common. Although I think I know the answer, I would be curious to know your view on the Spiritual Gifts, are they for today? & why.
I Corinthians 13.
That's all I'll say on that for now.
It's amazing how what seems like a simple question can actually be a question that touches on practically every aspect of Christian doctrine. You've absolutely gotta read The Plot!
Also, are you a member of the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church? Is this your back ground?
Definitely no!
I attended one for a while but they have some very odd doctrines, not the least of which is the belief that there is no such thing as a universal Body of Christ and that the local assembly of believers is THE body of Christ for anyone who attends that particular assembly.
I grew up and was saved in the so called "Christian Church" as in "Memorial Park Christian Church". They are from the same stock as both the "Disciples of Christ" and the "Church of Christ". The Disciples of Christ being more liberal and the Church of Christ being more conservative than the "Christian Churches" which were more or less somewhere between the two. All three of them are Acts 2 Dispensational and, as a result, are also quite legalistic, the Church of Christ being extremely so. All three are also Arminian and so acknowledge free will but also accept exhaustive foreknowledge and teach that God exists outside of time. In short, understanding their doctrine won't get you very far in regard to getting a feel for what I believe.
I am curious because it's hard to find a Mid Acts Dispensational Church and the IFB Churches are Merely Dispensational, but not Mid Acts. How would I find a Mid Acts Church?
Mid-Acts churches are all but impossible to find anywhere outside Wisconsin, New Jersey and Illinois. They exist but are very few and far between. If you happen to live in the Denver area there's Agape Kingdom Fellowship, a church I do not attend because I live in the Houston area but I have had a long association with the ministry and count myself as a member there. Otherwise, you're probably not going to find a Mid-Acts church anywhere near you.
The Berean Bible Society was founded over seventy years ago for the sole purpose of helping believers understand and enjoy the Word of God. Our Organization holds without apology to all the fundamentals of the Christian faith and is evangelical, that is, we believe that salvation is by grace through
bereanbiblesociety.org
“Is There A Grace Church Like Yours Near Me?”
