HOW TO GET TO HEAVEN WHEN YOU DIE

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God's Truth

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Where do you see that in Paul's writings? I don't. We are under Paul's Gospel of grace. Could you kindly give me the verses from Paul's writings?

Paul's gospel is God's gospel.

We are not under Paul's gospel.

Even Paul says he is under God's gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

Grace is that we no don't have to do the ceremonial works to make ourselves clean, because since Jesus, we only have to have faith that his blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Here are scriptures where Paul says to repent and believe:

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
 

xfrodobagginsx

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Paul's gospel is God's gospel.

We are not under Paul's gospel.

Wrong. We ARE under Paul's gospel.

Even Paul says he is under God's gospel.

1 Corinthians 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law.

This is a description of grace, Oaul's gospel.

Grace is that we no don't have to do the ceremonial works to make ourselves clean, because since Jesus, we only have to have faith that his blood cleans us of the sins we repent of doing.

Grace means "Unearned favor". We can't do ANYTHING to earn our salvation, but we have to appropriate it by faith in Christ, believing that He died and rose again for our sins. Where in Paul's writings does it say to repent for salvation to the gentiles? The repentance is of unbelief even under the gospels.

Here are scriptures where Paul says to repent and believe:

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Repent of their Unbelief and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ...

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.


When you repent of your unbelief, you will automatically do God's will. The deeds show that you are not placing your faith in the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:25 correcting opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance and then knowledge of the truth.

Repentance of their unbelief...

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews was written to Jews under the law, but if you have faith in Christ, you will try to obey Him, that is true.

Romans 6:16 Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Faith is the key of salvation:

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(KJV)


Faith leads to obedience, which leads to repentance. You are putting the cart before the horse. Salvation is by Grace through FAITH it is a gift of God, not of works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no mention of repentance in this verse because FAITH in Christ IS repentance.


Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation... 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Believing is FAITH. FAITH is repentance of your unbelief.
 

God's Truth

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Faith is the key of salvation:

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(KJV)

We do have to have faith to get saved.

Don't ever forget that faith alone is dead.

James 2:14, 17, 19,. 20, 22, 14, and 29; 2 Peter 3; 2 Peter 3:17, and 17.
Faith leads to obedience,


No, it does not always do that.

Faith with obedience is how to get saved, and you yourself have faith and are not even obedient by preaching that truth.

which leads to repentance. You are putting the cart before the horse.

We have to have faith and right action; or, we have to have right action and faith. Either way, but never alone, never one without the other.

Salvation is by Grace through FAITH it is a gift of God, not of works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
God gives the gift to those He chooses to give it.

The 'not of works' means not of the purification/ceremonial works.

Paul would not ever say to have faith and do not obey to get saved.

That would be ludicrous.

The secret to getting saved is not 'believe but be careful not to obey'.

There is no mention of repentance in this verse because FAITH in Christ IS repentance.
Ro 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you had better be obeying him.

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation... 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Did you read that? CONFESSION is made unto salvation. That is more proof that we have to repent to get saved.

Repenting of sins is the foundation, it is the beginning of salvation.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,

Believing is FAITH. FAITH is repentance of your unbelief.

Faith is not repentance.

Believe in the Word of God and not things taught by men.
 

xfrodobagginsx

Active member
We do have to have faith to get saved.

Don't ever forget that faith alone is dead.

James 2:14, 17, 19,. 20, 22, 14, and 29; 2 Peter 3; 2 Peter 3:17, and 17.

Those verses were written to the Jews who were under the law. Every verse you just listed is written to Jews who had a works based salvation. The were to repent and be baptized believing that Jesus is their Messiah for salvation. None of those verses are from Paul's writings to the gentiles under Grace.


No, it does not always do that.

Faith is what saves, without works. Look at Paul's writings, which were written to the Gentiles who are under Grace:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Faith with obedience is how to get saved, and you yourself have faith and are not even obedient by preaching that truth.

I am being obedient or I would be preaching what you preach.


We have to have faith and right action; or, we have to have right action and faith. Either way, but never alone, never one without the other.

Jesus Christ finished the work of salvation on the cross. You are trying to come up to heaven in your own way way thinking it's about what YOU are doing. It's not. It's about what Jesus Christ has already done for you. True faith results in good works, but the good works aren't the cause of salvation, the faith is. We are saved UNTO good works, not because of good works.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. {ordained: or, prepared}

God gives the gift to those He chooses to give it.

God draws men with His Holy Spirit, but we must respond in faith.

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: {power: or, the right, or, privilege}

The 'not of works' means not of the purification/ceremonial works.

Paul would not ever say to have faith and do not obey to get saved.

That would be ludicrous.

I never said that Paul said that we shouldn't have works or obey AFTER salvation. What I am saying is that good works aren't the cause of salvation, they are the RESULT of salvation. For the Jews it was the opposite, they did good deeds and faith and that resulted in salvation. It's the opposite under Grace.

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in the



The secret to getting saved is not 'believe but be careful not to obey'.

No one said Not to obey.



If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, then you had better be obeying him.

If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus says nothing about works for salvation now does it?

Luke 6:46 "Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?

Like I said, I never said that we shouldn't obey God. But the reason Christian obey Him is because they are already saved, not so that they can gain salvation. Plus, this was written to Jews under the law, not those under Grace.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Written to the Jews who were under the law. The Jews plan of salvation was merit based, the Gospel of Grace is not of works.



Did you read that? CONFESSION is made unto salvation. That is more proof that we have to repent to get saved.

Repenting of sins is the foundation, it is the beginning of salvation.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,



Faith is not repentance.

Believe in the Word of God and not things taught by men.


My response is in bold above.
 

JudgeRightly

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I believe the Bible over you. You are not rightly dividing the word of Truth. That is your issue. We are currently under the dispensation of Grace. Paul's writings. Do you agree or not?

GT thinks Paul preached the same gospel Jesus taught, if that gives you any idea as to what her beliefs are like.
 

xfrodobagginsx

Active member
No you don't, you believe false teachers over me.



Jesus is full of grace and HE is the one who came with grace. And, grace is not 'you only have to believe and not obey'.

So then you believe that Paul was lying when He said that the risen Jesus gave him his message of Grace?

Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul was taught his gospel of Grace by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ:

Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Read Galatians. Paul never had contact with the Apostles for 3 years after his conversion. The ascended Lord taught him his gospel:

Ga 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. {went up: or, returned} 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.
 

God's Truth

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So then you believe that Paul was lying when He said that the risen Jesus gave him his message of Grace?
How do you ever get that a person of my faith would say Paul was lying? Even your way of questioning others is false.

Jesus has given many people the message of grace.

Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Paul calls it the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.

lol

Paul was taught his gospel of Grace by the ascended Lord Jesus Christ:

Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Read Galatians. Paul never had contact with the Apostles for 3 years after his conversion. The ascended Lord taught him his gospel:

Ga 1:17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. {went up: or, returned} 19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

An APOSTLE is a man who was not taught by another man, but only by Jesus Christ directly.

Everyone knew that Paul was not one of Jesus' apostles while Jesus had his earthly ministry...so people wondered how Paul could be an apostle. They must have thought that Peter or the other apostles taught Paul. Paul explains that he did not get taught by one of the other apostles, but that the risen Lord taught him.

That is proof that it is the same gospel. I am just trying to help you know the Lord better.
 

God's Truth

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Grace from Jesus not Paul


Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.


Faith was taught by Jesus.
 
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xfrodobagginsx

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Grace from Jesus not Paul


Luke 2:40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:4 [ Greetings and Doxology ] John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,

Revelation 22:21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.


Faith was taught by Jesus.

Love was taught by Jesus. Jesus gave the message of Grace to Paul. Jesus did not teach grace the Jews were still under the law.
 

xfrodobagginsx

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How do you ever get that a person of my faith would say Paul was lying? Even your way of questioning others is false.

Jesus has given many people the message of grace.



Paul calls it the gospel of God, the Gospel of Christ, Paul’s gospel, and our gospel.

lol



An APOSTLE is a man who was not taught by another man, but only by Jesus Christ directly.

Everyone knew that Paul was not one of Jesus' apostles while Jesus had his earthly ministry...so people wondered how Paul could be an apostle. They must have thought that Peter or the other apostles taught Paul. Paul explains that he did not get taught by one of the other apostles, but that the risen Lord taught him.

That is proof that it is the same gospel. I am just trying to help you know the Lord better.

Paul is an Apostle and was directly taught of the risen Lord. I agree on that, but there is a reason that Paul was taught separately from the other Apostles, because his message was different. The 12 had a message to the Jews who were under law. It was the gospel of the Kingdom, Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins...Paul's gospel was the gospel of grace, that Jesus Christ died and rose again for our sins and we are to place our faith in Him for salvation without works...

Yes the risen Lord taught Paul his gospel of Grace:

Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Paul's gospel was kept secret in the mind of Christ since the foundation of the world, because God knew that the Jews would reject Him and that He would turn to the Gentiles:

Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Peter preached his gospel to the Jew only. Paul preached grace to the gentiles.

Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Peter admits that Paul's gospel of grace is hard for Peter to understand:


2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

God's Truth

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Paul is an Apostle and was directly taught of the risen Lord.
Jesus' teachings didn't change because he was risen.

I agree on that, but there is a reason that Paul was taught separately from the other Apostles, because his message was different.

Paul was taught separately because Paul rejected Christ and tried to destroy the church.

The 12 had a message to the Jews who were under law. It was the gospel of the Kingdom, Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins...Paul's gospel was the gospel of grace, that Jesus Christ died and rose again for our sins and we are to place our faith in Him for salvation without works...

The no works are the no purification works. And, John the baptizer taught that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

Yes the risen Lord taught Paul his gospel of Grace:

Ga 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

An Apostle means God taught someone. Everyone knew that Paul did not associate with Jesus when he was alive, so people wondered if he was a real Apostle. Paul reassured people that he was a real Apostle because Jesus taught him though he had taught him after he ascended.

Paul's gospel was kept secret in the mind of Christ since the foundation of the world, because God knew that the Jews would reject Him and that He would turn to the Gentiles:

Jesus' 12 Apostles to the Lamb knew the truth before Paul.

Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Peter preached his gospel to the Jew only.

Paul preached grace to the gentiles.

Peter taught the Gentiles first, and it was decided that Paul go far away to the Gentiles because the Jews did not trust him. The Jews thought Paul was trying to trick them into saying they believe in Jesus so Paul could drag them off to prison to be tortured and killed.


Ga 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Peter admits that Paul's gospel of grace is hard for Peter to understand:

No way; Peter says Paul says some things that are hard to understand for others, and the unstable and uneducated misunderstand.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

JudgeRightly

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How ignorant for you to say Jesus didn't give and teach that grace he was full of!
GT, for the umpteenth time:

How many times did Jesus utter the word "grace?"

How many times did Jesus utter the word "law," "commandment," "Moses," "command," "statutes," etc?

You won't answer either question. Prove me wrong.
 
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