How to be Truly Human

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
When I first became A Christian I was "The Chief Of All Pharisees." I was down at the church atleast 4 times a week. I was Mr. Holy Joe. I was judgmental and condemning of everyone that did not live up to my standards, which were ridiculously high. That is until I learned the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then all of my religious chains fell off and I became a human being again.

Religion wants to try and make us to be like God. We can't be like God because we are a sinners. Jesus was a teacher of the law. The law says, "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Jesus was not a hypocrite, he was perfect. The purpose of the law is to show us that we are a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Even your very best is still sin. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is good news for sinners, it is good news because it tells us how we can be saved and justified while still being a sinner.

Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that our salvation is totally and completely outside of us. Before we were even born our salvation was available to us. This means that salvation cannot be earned or deserved by our actions. It is ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to give us faith and make us into a Christian, Ephesians 2:10. God wants us to be truly human. He doesn't want is to be "Holy Joe's" If you are a holy Joe you will alienate people from yourself and will make it impossible to reach them with Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus did not separate himself from sinners. The Pharisees accused him of being "A winebibber and a friend of sinners" Luke 7:34. Jesus did not fit their holiness profile so they rejected him. Eating and drinking with sinners was against their religion. The Gospel gives us the freedom to be truly human, but it does not give us the freedom to sin. We have been called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel. We can't be an effective witness for Christ and his Gospel if we are living like the devil, but we can be an effective witness for Christ by being a human being.

Paul wrote, "I can be all things to all men, that I might save some" 1 Corinthians 9:22 What was Paul's purpose in becoming "All things to all men" "And this I do for the Gospel's sake" 1 Corinthians 9:23. That he might save some. I have been in some very uncomfortable situations where my first impulse was to walk out, but I didn't, because I wanted to be a witness for Christ and his Gospel, in spite of it all.

Paul was not a holiness Christian. Paul readily confessed that he was, "The Chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. He also confessed that he struggled with sin, Romans 7:13-25. Struggling with sin is a normal part of the Christians life. As Christians we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but we are still here on this earth in our sinful Adamic bodies, that are prone to sin. What is the solution for indwelling sin? Sorry, there isn't one. Living life in the Gospel and knowing that we are justified by faith and justified by Christ, will help us to get through it.
 

Evil.Eye.<(I)>

BANNED
Banned
When I first became A Christian I was "The Chief Of All Pharisees." I was down at the church atleast 4 times a week. I was Mr. Holy Joe. I was judgmental and condemning of everyone that did not live up to my standards, which were ridiculously high. That is until I learned the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then all of my religious chains fell off and I became a human being again.

Religion wants to try and make us to be like God. We can't be like God because we are a sinners. Jesus was a teacher of the law. The law says, "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Jesus was not a hypocrite, he was perfect. The purpose of the law is to show us that we are a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Even your very best is still sin. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is good news for sinners, it is good news because it tells us how we can be saved and justified while still being a sinner.

Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that our salvation is totally and completely outside of us. Before we were even born our salvation was available to us. This means that salvation cannot be earned or deserved by our actions. It is ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to give us faith and make us into a Christian, Ephesians 2:10. God wants us to be truly human. He doesn't want is to be "Holy Joe's" If you are a holy Joe you will alienate people from yourself and will make it impossible to reach them with Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus did not separate himself from sinners. The Pharisees accused him of being "A winebibber and a friend of sinners" Luke 7:34. Jesus did not fit their holiness profile so they rejected him. Eating and drinking with sinners was against their religion. The Gospel gives us the freedom to be truly human, but it does not give us the freedom to sin. We have been called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel. We can't be an effective witness for Christ and his Gospel if we are living like the devil, but we can be an effective witness for Christ by being a human being.

Paul wrote, "I can be all things to all men, that I might save some" 1 Corinthians 9:22 What was Paul's purpose in becoming "All things to all men" "And this I do for the Gospel's sake" 1 Corinthians 9:23. That he might save some. I have been in some very uncomfortable situations where my first impulse was to walk out, but I didn't, because I wanted to be a witness for Christ and his Gospel, in spite of it all.

Paul was not a holiness Christian. Paul readily confessed that he was, "The Chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. He also confessed that he struggled with sin, Romans 7:13-25. Struggling with sin is a normal part of the Christians life. As Christians we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but we are still here on this earth in our sinful Adamic bodies, that are prone to sin. What is the solution for indwelling sin? Sorry, there isn't one. Living life in the Gospel and knowing that we are justified by faith and justified by Christ, will help us to get through it.

Bump... Bump... Bump...
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Our Lord's Sinlessness

Our Lord's Sinlessness

Then the question needs to asked; did He sin?
A good question, the answer of course is, no.

Our Lord is one Person. That Person, fully God and fully man, cannot sin because the divine is sinless, and Jesus Christ has a divine nature. It is wholly improper to state that Christ "may have been able to sin in his human nature". Why? Persons Will (or act); natures Are.

When Our Lord was incarnate and became the new Adam, He came born with the same nature that Adam had before the Fall. Adam didn't have original sin when he was created. So Jesus' human nature was not tainted with original sin. So we would ask the same question: Was Adam capable of sinning? Yes, He was. Christ, the second Adam, was also capable of sinning in the sense that He had all of the faculties and all of the equipment necessary to sin if that is what He chose to do.

Could Jesus have sinned if He had wanted to? Absolutely. Of course, He didn't want to. So if you ask it a different way, could Jesus sin if he didn't want to? No, he couldn't sin if He didn't want to any more than God could sin because God doesn't want to sin. Wanting to sin is a prerequisite for sinning. When we're in heaven and are totally glorified, we will no longer have the power and ability to sin. That's what we look forward to; that's what Jesus earned for Himself and for us through His perfect active and passive obedience. Christ's perfect obedience was not a charade. He actually was victorious over every conceivable temptation that was thrown His way.

AMR
 
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Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
When Our Lord was incarnate and became the new Adam, He came born with the same nature that Adam had before the Fall. Adam didn't have original sin when he was created. So Jesus' human nature was not tainted with original sin.

The Lord Jesus was made like us in every way (Heb.2:17). Since He came out of the womb sinless then it is evident that we do too.
 

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Jerry Redoubles His Previously Laid Waste Efforts

Jerry Redoubles His Previously Laid Waste Efforts

The Lord Jesus was made like us in every way (Heb.2:17). Since He came out of the womb sinless then it is evident that we do too.
No, Jerry.

In other words, from birth all are just as morally able as was Our Lord.
Apparently Our Lord was not really special when it comes to His humanity, any one of us could have pulled it off. We could all be sinless if we just tried really, really hard, yet somehow only Our Lord was sinless in all of man's history after Adam. Sigh.

Your view denies the impact of the fall of Adam, as well as the Christological doctrines in Scripture concerning Our Lord's human nature, all of which we have discussed time and again. We are born sinners, and sin because we are sinners. We are not born morally neutral, and become sinners by sinning.

In your denial of Adam's original sin, you are beyond the bounds of the church militant's position concerning what Scripture teaches on this matter. Such is the problem with rank Pelagianism. It is no wonder that those that want to cling to being Captains of their own souls will overreach to recast matters of Scriptural doctrine to suit their purposes.

Jerry, the preacher at New Park Street Chapel had you in mind:

“Lord, I thank thee that I am not like these poor, presumptuous Calvinists. Lord, I was born with a glorious free will; I was born with a power by which I can turn to thee of myself; I have improved my grace. If everybody had done the same with their grace as I have, they might all have been saved. Lord, I know that thou dost not make us willing if we are not willing ourselves… it was not thy grace that made us differ… I made use of what was given me, and others did not—that is the difference between me and them.”
Src: Spurgeon, Sermon on John 5:40Free Will a Slave” The New Park Street Pulpit, 1855- 1856, Volumes I & II (Pilgrim 1975), 395-402.

Sigh.

AMR
 
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marhig

Well-known member
When I first became A Christian I was "The Chief Of All Pharisees." I was down at the church atleast 4 times a week. I was Mr. Holy Joe. I was judgmental and condemning of everyone that did not live up to my standards, which were ridiculously high. That is until I learned the Gospel of Jesus Christ and then all of my religious chains fell off and I became a human being again.

Religion wants to try and make us to be like God. We can't be like God because we are a sinners. Jesus was a teacher of the law. The law says, "Be ye perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect" Jesus was not a hypocrite, he was perfect. The purpose of the law is to show us that we are a sinner. This is why Paul wrote, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Even your very best is still sin. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is good news for sinners, it is good news because it tells us how we can be saved and justified while still being a sinner.

Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that our salvation is totally and completely outside of us. Before we were even born our salvation was available to us. This means that salvation cannot be earned or deserved by our actions. It is ours by simple child like faith in Christ and his Gospel, plus nothing. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to give us faith and make us into a Christian, Ephesians 2:10. God wants us to be truly human. He doesn't want is to be "Holy Joe's" If you are a holy Joe you will alienate people from yourself and will make it impossible to reach them with Christ and his Gospel.

Jesus did not separate himself from sinners. The Pharisees accused him of being "A winebibber and a friend of sinners" Luke 7:34. Jesus did not fit their holiness profile so they rejected him. Eating and drinking with sinners was against their religion. The Gospel gives us the freedom to be truly human, but it does not give us the freedom to sin. We have been called to be witnesses for Christ and his Gospel. We can't be an effective witness for Christ and his Gospel if we are living like the devil, but we can be an effective witness for Christ by being a human being.

Paul wrote, "I can be all things to all men, that I might save some" 1 Corinthians 9:22 What was Paul's purpose in becoming "All things to all men" "And this I do for the Gospel's sake" 1 Corinthians 9:23. That he might save some. I have been in some very uncomfortable situations where my first impulse was to walk out, but I didn't, because I wanted to be a witness for Christ and his Gospel, in spite of it all.

Paul was not a holiness Christian. Paul readily confessed that he was, "The Chief of sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. He also confessed that he struggled with sin, Romans 7:13-25. Struggling with sin is a normal part of the Christians life. As Christians we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but we are still here on this earth in our sinful Adamic bodies, that are prone to sin. What is the solution for indwelling sin? Sorry, there isn't one. Living life in the Gospel and knowing that we are justified by faith and justified by Christ, will help us to get through it.
There is a solution for indwelling sin, and that's the indwelling holy spirit who helps us to overcome and put sin to death.

It's no good saying that there is no solution for indwelling sin, thus making it ok to sin. No were not ok to wilfully sin. It's wrong before God. And Jesus taught us to deny ourselves and Paul also taught that we are to turn from sin.

Jesus said, who is my mother, my brothers and my sisters but those who do the will of my father. And those living by the will of God, will be, through Christ and by the power of the holy spirit, turning from sin and the lusts of the flesh and the ways of this world and they will be obeying God and following Jesus.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Then the question needs to asked; did He sin?

Of course he did not sin, he is the King of Righteousness and always has been.

Robert quotes statements completely out of context and expects TOL to fall for false statements.

There is none righteous, no, not one... (Romans 3:10)

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, and have done abominable iniquity; There is none who does good.
(Psalm 53:1)

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none who does good.
(Psalm 14:1)​
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
There is a solution for indwelling sin, and that's the indwelling holy spirit who helps us to overcome and put sin to death.

It's no good saying that there is no solution for indwelling sin, thus making it ok to sin. No were not ok to wilfully sin. It's wrong before God. And Jesus taught us to deny ourselves and Paul also taught that we are to turn from sin.

Jesus said, who is my mother, my brothers and my sisters but those who do the will of my father. And those living by the will of God, will be, through Christ and by the power of the holy spirit, turning from sin and the lusts of the flesh and the ways of this world and they will be obeying God and following Jesus.


The Holy Spirit is to the Christian what the law was to the Jews. It is a keeper, but it can be resisted.

The fact remains that there is, "None righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Except for Jesus Christ.

Man is born a sinner, lives out his life as a sinner and dies a sinner. This is why Paul said, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality" 1 Corinthiams 15:53. We must be changed because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
In other words, from birth all are just as morally able as was Our Lord. Apparently Our Lord was not really special when it comes to His humanity, any one of us could have pulled it off. We could all be sinless if we just tried really, really hard, yet somehow only Our Lord was sinless in all of man's history after Adam. Sigh.

Jesus had God's Spirit from birth. It is God's Spirit that gives a person the power to overcome sin. (Hebrews 9:14)
 

Robert Pate

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Banned
Jesus had God's Spirit from birth. It is God's Spirit that gives a person the power to overcome sin. (Hebrews 9:14)

We never really overcome sin as long as we are in these Adamic bodies that are prone to sin. We need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Man is born a sinner, lives out his life as a sinner and dies a sinner.

You say that because you have no idea what sin is. God does not hold babies accountable for wrong doing.

Do you know why?

Of course you don't. Babies have done no wrong and have not sinned.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
We never really overcome sin as long as we are in these Adamic bodies that are prone to sin. We need to be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (Romans 8:9-10)​

Dead bodies don't sin. Spiritually immature heavenly beings sin.

What is a heavenly being?

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural and afterward the spiritual.

The first man was of the earth, made of dust, the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. (1 Corinthians 15:46-49)​
 

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. (Romans 8:9-10)​

Dead bodies don't sin. Spiritually immature heavenly beings sin.

What is a heavenly being?

However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural and afterward the spiritual.

The first man was of the earth, made of dust, the second Man is the Lord from heaven. As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man. (1 Corinthians 15:46-49)​


To bear the image of the heavenly you must first die a physical death because flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
To bear the image of the heavenly you must first die a physical death because flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50.

I have to wonder if those in Christ reflect his image.

I have to wonder why those in Christ would not reflect his image.
 

marhig

Well-known member
The Holy Spirit is to the Christian what the law was to the Jews. It is a keeper, but it can be resisted.

The fact remains that there is, "None righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. Except for Jesus Christ.

Man is born a sinner, lives out his life as a sinner and dies a sinner. This is why Paul said, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortal must put on immortality" 1 Corinthiams 15:53. We must be changed because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, 1 Corinthians 15:50.

No were not righteous and yes we are sinners, we are in sinful flesh and we will always sin. But by the power of the holy spirit we should by overcoming sin daily. Especially wilful sinning.

Would you, knowing it was wrong before God, still do it anyway?

Before I truly knew God, yes I would. But I would find it very hard to do something knowing it's against God now. My conscience would be burning and I'd feel really guilty.

We are to fight wrong doing, and deny ourselves, and live by Gods will.
 
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