How Much Damage Did Trump Cause in Helsinki?

drbrumley

Well-known member
Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

They are still screaming about the “Treason summit” on Twitter nearly a week after it’s been over. But what do they mean? Treason to whom, or to what?

To begin with, in order to understand what they mean you have to know where they’re coming from: what are their real allegiances? The Davos crowd doesn’t live in a country that in any way resembles the United States of America: it is populated by crony capitalists, military contractors, corporate oligarchs, foreign lobbyists, dubious NGOs, agenda-driven “journalists,” corrupted academics, and the paid Myrmidons of the War Party. The rest of us exist merely to pay the bills.
 

rexlunae

New member
Asked by reporters to repeat the Russia-gate mantra that Russia was responsible for “hacking” the 2016 presidential election, the President demurred but was later – in what Tucker Carlson called the “hostage video” – persuaded to reiterate the official US government line, backing up DNI Dan Coates’ contention that the Russians were behind it all. And yet Trump still demurred, ad libbing from a prepared statement that “it could be other people also.”

Trump has been shown the intelligence intercepts of Putin's orders. He knows it's Putin. He's participating in Putin's coverup, which could, in itself, be a crime.
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

Every country has its official mythology, its sacred canons that define its character and its very existence, and in the case of Elite America it’s the idea of the US as the guardian of the “liberal international order,” a role inherited by us from the British and solemnly passed down in the annals of foreign policy wonkery. This is the dogma that must never be challenged – and certainly not by the high priest of this ersatz religion, none other than the President of these United States!
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

Trump’s ‘Treason’: Challenging the Empire Let that Helsinki in by Justin Raimondo

Yet that’s exactly what’s happening. The Emperor is telling us that the burden of empire cannot be borne much longer. This is Trump’s “treason.”

If truth is treason, then let the President’s enemies make the most of it.

As I’ve written on several occasions, Trump’s foreign policy mission (whether he knows it or not) is to eviscerate the outmoded structures — and prejudices – of the cold war era, and inaugurate a new era in our relations with the rest of the planet. That this is going to be painful and even traumatic for our political class is inevitable: they’ve been weaned on a mythology that is now outmoded and utterly useless for understanding the world we live in. And yet since their power and prestige depends on its unchallenged veracity, they have to keep pretending that it continues to be meaningful. How long they can keep this up is a matter of some conjecture: probably about the same amount of time after Bastille Day it took the Bourbons to figure out that they were in some trouble.
 

rexlunae

New member
We won't know how much damage Trump did until we find out what happened in that meeting. There's indication that Trump and Putin made a secret pact on several issues.
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
The utter malevolence of our political class was dramatized in all its darkness by their reaction to the Helsinki summit: the “Treason summit” they dubbed it, with the Twitter hashtag going viral. That’s what they think of a meeting between the heads of two countries which have thousands of nuclear-tipped missiles aimed at each other.

The extinction of humankind – who cares? What really matters is appeasing Hillary Clinton’s sense of entitlement. Anything else is pure sedition.

insane, isn't it?

we have normally rational people on this site who shrug their shoulders at the possibility of this turning into a "hot war"

I must be so out of touch, so distant from current cultural cues and memes, that I failed to pick up the ostensible reason for the outcry that greeted Trump’s performance in Helsinki. What specifically did he say that got them breathing so heavily? What the heck did he do?

As far as I can tell, Trump’s big sin was apparently engaging in the following exchange with some grandstanding “reporter”:

“Thank you. Mr. President, you tweeted this morning that it’s U.S. foolishness, stupidity, and the Mueller probe that is responsible for the decline in US relations with Russia. Do you hold Russia at all accountable or anything in particular? And if so, what would you what would you consider them that they are responsible for?

“TRUMP: Yes I do. I hold both countries responsible. I think that the United States has been foolish. I think we’ve all been foolish. We should have had this dialogue a long time ago, a long time frankly before I got to office. And I think we’re all to blame.”

this apparently was trump "surrendering" :dizzy:

The pundits are screeching ....

like monkeys flinging poo

that why i don't give them any heed
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
No one is demanding that. But Russia attacked us. We need to respond proportionately.

ok - they have an election coming up in, what, 2024?

we'll hack hillary's servers right before their election


that'll show them :banana:



and probably cause as much damage
 

drbrumley

Well-known member
Caitlin Johnstone correctly observes that Trump, far from obsequious toward Russia, has actually been bellicose. So much for "Trump is in Putin's pocket," a notion advanced by morons.

She writes (emphasis in original):

Though you’ll never hear American mass media talking about it on either MSNBC or Fox News because it doesn’t fit the narrative on either side, Trump has actually dangerously escalated cold war tensions with Russia far beyond anything his predecessor dared to do.

From adopting a Nuclear Posture Review with greatly increased aggression toward Russia and blurring lines between when nuclear strikes are and are not appropriate, to facilitating the longstanding neoconservative agenda to arm Ukraine (a dangerously hawkish move which Obama adamantly refused to do), to repeatedly bombing the Syrian government and killing Russians in Syria as part of its illegal occupation of that country, to throwing out Russian diplomats on more than one occasion, to expanding NATO with the addition of Montenegro, to aggressive sanctions on Russian oligarchs and more, this administration has inflamed tensions along multiple fronts and increased the probability of something going disastrously, irrevocably wrong.

Whether the US president has been doing these things because that was his plan all along, or because he is beholden to powers which wish to advance such agendas, or because he’s caving to political pressures from his opponents in order to avoid accusations of treason, is a question that’s open for debate. Personally, I do not care. What matters is the fact that these escalations are there, and that they need to be scaled down....

Meanwhile, Rand Paul continues to be a voice of reason, along with Congressman Thomas Massie (though, conspicuously, not Justin Amash).

Rand stands to gain nothing but abuse from taking his lonely position. But as someone who was critical of Rand's presidential campaign, I say: Rand Paul is precisely the man America and the world need right now.

Again Johnstone:

Opposing talks which could lead to de-escalations between the two countries who own almost all of the nuclear warheads in the world is inexcusable and unforgivable. I don’t care if you’re dumb enough to swallow the US intelligence community’s still completely unsubstantiated claims of Russian hacking. I don’t care if you think Trump is bought and owned by Vladimir Putin. Even if both of those things were true, there would still be no excuse for opposing peace talks in a dangerously escalating new cold war. None.

Communication and understanding in this situation is an objectively good thing. This meeting with Russia’s leader, which all US presidents have done for many decades, is an objectively good thing. If you have joined in the campaign to help shove the tide of opinion away from peace and toward nuclear holocaust, you are making yourself an enemy of humanity. You have become so warped and demented by your hatred of Donald Trump that it has made a part of you less human.

Very hard to find commentary like that these days.

On Facebook, it's hard even to scroll through your feed: everyone is screeching like a sick monkey.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
WASHINGTON — Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have blocked a move to subpoena the American translator from the Helsinki summit to testify about the private talks between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Putin approves.

main-qimg-038c5f8f77dc07ce75c6bc3ae1bc94be-c
 

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Caitlin Johnstone correctly observes that Trump, far from obsequious toward Russia, has actually been bellicose. So much for "Trump is in Putin's pocket," a notion advanced by morons.

well, if not morons, then certainly those with a mental disorder

If you have joined in the campaign to help shove the tide of opinion away from peace and toward nuclear holocaust, you are making yourself an enemy of humanity. You have become so warped and demented by your hatred of Donald Trump that it has made a part of you less human.

:think:


...we should...escalate our response... If that turns into a hot war, or a declared war, so-be-it...


everyone is screeching like a sick monkey.

that sounds vaguely familiar
 

rexlunae

New member
Caitlin Johnstone correctly observes that Trump, far from obsequious toward Russia, has actually been bellicose. So much for "Trump is in Putin's pocket," a notion advanced by morons.

She writes (emphasis in original):

Though you’ll never hear American mass media talking about it on either MSNBC or Fox News because it doesn’t fit the narrative on either side, Trump has actually dangerously escalated cold war tensions with Russia far beyond anything his predecessor dared to do.

From adopting a Nuclear Posture Review with greatly increased aggression toward Russia and blurring lines between when nuclear strikes are and are not appropriate, to facilitating the longstanding neoconservative agenda to arm Ukraine (a dangerously hawkish move which Obama adamantly refused to do), to repeatedly bombing the Syrian government and killing Russians in Syria as part of its illegal occupation of that country, to throwing out Russian diplomats on more than one occasion, to expanding NATO with the addition of Montenegro, to aggressive sanctions on Russian oligarchs and more, this administration has inflamed tensions along multiple fronts and increased the probability of something going disastrously, irrevocably wrong.

Whether the US president has been doing these things because that was his plan all along, or because he is beholden to powers which wish to advance such agendas, or because he’s caving to political pressures from his opponents in order to avoid accusations of treason, is a question that’s open for debate. Personally, I do not care. What matters is the fact that these escalations are there, and that they need to be scaled down....

Meanwhile, Rand Paul continues to be a voice of reason, along with Congressman Thomas Massie (though, conspicuously, not Justin Amash).

Rand stands to gain nothing but abuse from taking his lonely position. But as someone who was critical of Rand's presidential campaign, I say: Rand Paul is precisely the man America and the world need right now.

Again Johnstone:

Opposing talks which could lead to de-escalations between the two countries who own almost all of the nuclear warheads in the world is inexcusable and unforgivable. I don’t care if you’re dumb enough to swallow the US intelligence community’s still completely unsubstantiated claims of Russian hacking. I don’t care if you think Trump is bought and owned by Vladimir Putin. Even if both of those things were true, there would still be no excuse for opposing peace talks in a dangerously escalating new cold war. None.

Communication and understanding in this situation is an objectively good thing. This meeting with Russia’s leader, which all US presidents have done for many decades, is an objectively good thing. If you have joined in the campaign to help shove the tide of opinion away from peace and toward nuclear holocaust, you are making yourself an enemy of humanity. You have become so warped and demented by your hatred of Donald Trump that it has made a part of you less human.

Very hard to find commentary like that these days.

On Facebook, it's hard even to scroll through your feed: everyone is screeching like a sick monkey.

Are you suggesting that he can't escalate a war against Russia while collaborating with Putin? Seems like it's entirely reasonable to believe their interests may align in the conflict.

Beyond that, there's reason to believe that Trump traded Ukraine deadly weaponry for Ukraine not cooperating with Mueller's probe.
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
The fact that an American president would even consider turning American citizens over to an unfriendly dictator for interrogation, is an indication of how far we've fallen under Trump.

Even Senate republicans felt the need to join with the democrats to unanimously rebuke him for that failure.

"America first" turned out to be false advertising. In today's WH, Putin comes before America.
 

Kit the Coyote

New member
WASHINGTON — Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have blocked a move to subpoena the American translator from the Helsinki summit to testify about the private talks between President Donald Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Putin approves.

Actually, I think in this case I do too. A translator involved in a private conversation between the President and another head of state can and IMHO should fall under the jurisdiction of executive privilege. You would practically be encouraging the President to depend on a Russian provided translator for all future meetings.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Well, according to Russia's ambassador to the US, they made "important verbal agreements," and Putin made "specific and interesting proposals to Washington."

The American people deserve to know what those are.

(So do his intelligence, defense, and foreign affairs officials, who are apparently just as much in the dark.)


Looks like we've learned one thing:

MOSCOW (AP) — President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Donald Trump discussed a possible referendum in separatist-leaning eastern Ukraine during their Helsinki summit earlier this week, Russia’s ambassador to the U.S. said Friday.

Ambassador Anatoly Antonov revealed the discussions amid confusion and concern in the U.S. about what the two presidents agreed behind closed doors.

“This issue (of a referendum) was discussed,” he said, adding without elaborating that Putin made “concrete proposals” to Trump on solutions for the four-year Ukraine conflict, which has killed more than 10,000 people.

The move may be seen as an effort to sidestep European peace efforts for Ukraine and increase pressure on the Ukrainian government in its protracted conflict with pro-Russian separatists in the Donbass region.
 
Top