How Jesus Justified Ungodly Sinners and Reconciled the World Unto God

R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
Many do not know or understand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.

"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.

Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.

When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
Many do not know or underdstand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.

"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.

How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.

Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.

When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.
Click to expand...

You teach salvation by works, by what a person does, which is a insult to Jesus Christ, a damnable heresy!
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
jamie said:
How so? How is the gift of salvation that Pate referred to a work?

It is a contradiction that work earns a gift. Your premise is nonsense.
Click to expand...

What do you mean how so ? I have been saying it for years, teaching that salvation is the result of what man does !
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Robert Pate said:
Many do not know or understand what Jesus actually accomplished in his life, death and resurrection. Many religious, self righteous people don't like the idea that Jesus justifies ungodly sinners. If we read the New Testament we will find that it was the prostitutes, tax collectors, publicans and sinners that believed upon him and followed him. It was the religious, self righteous Pharisees that rejected him.
Click to expand...
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."
Robert Pate said:
"But to him that does no works (Religion) but believes on him that justifies the ungodly (sinners) his faith is counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.
Click to expand...
You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.
Robert Pate said:
The big question is do you qualify? Are you an ungodly sinner? Paul wants everybody to know that he qualified when he wrote that he was "The Chief of Sinners" 1 Timothy 1:15. Was Paul really the chief of sinners? Of course not. He just wanted us to know that sinners are not excluded from the salvation that is in Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.

Robert Pate said:
How does Jesus save and justify ungodly sinners? Does he do something in them? Does he re-habilitate ungodly sinners by the works of the law? Or does he provide a salvation that is totally and completely outside of them. If the sin is within, the salvation must be without. Paul wrote, "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us"Romans 5:8. This scripture tells us that salvation in Jesus Christ is outside of us. It is so far outside of us that it happened over 2000 years ago, before we were ever born.
Click to expand...
You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,

Robert Pate said:
Not only is salvation outside of us, it is also found in another person, Jesus Christ. This is not complicated, even a small child can understand this. Jesus is God's new Adam. The old Adam who sinned against God and brought sin and death upon on us was crucified with Christ, God put him to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:4. No, you have not been predestinated, you were crucified with Christ. Our old Adamic nature has been destroyed so that we don't have to obey it any more, Romans 6:6.
Click to expand...
God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.
Robert Pate said:
When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. We have been MADE new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. The old has been destroyed and the new has arrived. God now sees us as perfect and complete in his Son Jesus Christ,Colossians 2:10. What is our part in all of this? The only thing that God asks us to do to be saved is to trust and believe in his Son Jesus Christ, plus nothing.

"For by grace (God's goodness) are we saved, through faith; and not of yourself, it is the gift of God: not of works, lest anyone should boast" Ephesians 2:8.
Click to expand...
Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.
 
jamie

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
beloved57 said:
What do you mean how so ? I have been saying it for years, teaching that salvation is the result of what man does !
Click to expand...

Which is not what Pate said. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, why are you doing his work for him?
 
beloved57

beloved57

Well-known member
God's Truth said:
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.

Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,


God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.

Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.
Click to expand...

Pate says it, you say it, pretty much everyone says it except one Nanja !
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God's Truth said:
Those prostitutes and tax collectors had to stop sinning that is how they were saved.
John 8:11
"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

You added the wrong word. The word you should have used is ‘ceremonial’. The works that were done to be saved were circumcision, and the sacrifice of animals, etc. Those are the works that no longer save. Just think, for over 1,600 years the Jews had to do those works to be justified before God, and now no one has to do those things anymore.

Paul was the chief of sinners. He tried to destroy the church. He had men and women dragged off to prison, to their death.

Acts 22:4
I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison,
Acts 9:1
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest
Acts 22:19
"'Lord,' I replied, 'these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in you.
1 Corinthians 15:9
For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.


Did you read that? Paul says WHY he is called the least---it is BECAUSE he tried to destroy the church.


Galatians 1:13
For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it.


You were not saved before you were saved. While we were yet sinners is about the Gentiles not having to get circumcised before Jesus would saved them. The Gentiles were DEAD in the sins, unlike the Jews who followed the works that justified them of their sins…that was circumcision, and animal sacrifices, etc.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,



Did you read that? In the UNcircumcision of you flesh.

They were DEAD in the UNcircumcsion of their flesh.

That is about NOT getting circumcised.

That is about the disobedient Gentiles.



Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,


God’s grace is the blood of Jesus washing you clean. HOWEVER, you CANNOT enter that grace unless you have faith that Jesus’ blood washes you clean---AFTER YOU REPENT OF YOUR SINS.
See Romans 5:2.

Again, those ‘WORKS’ are the ceremonial works. Those are the works the Jews USED TO be able to boast in; not anymore, because now anyone can be saved by just having faith the sins they repent of are washed away.

Galatians 6:13 Not even those who are circumcised keep the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your circumcision in the flesh.
Philippians 3:3
For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh--


Did you read that? The boasting was done in the CEREMONIAL works. Paul is NOT putting down obeying, as you teach. Paul is speaking of not being able to boast in the ceremonial works, i.e. CIRCUMCSION.
Click to expand...

You don't have clue as to what the Gospel and justification by faith are about
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
jamie said:
Which is not what Pate said. Satan is the accuser of the brethren, why are you doing his work for him?
Click to expand...

Pate says we are saved by making sure we do not do one thing of obedience if we want to be saved.

beloved57 says we are saved by making sure we do not obey anything in anyway, not even believe.

They both teach nonsense and you support it.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
Here is not the idiot wisdom of Pate and beloved57?


Attention everyone, the way to God is to make sure you do not obey Him in any way,

for if you do, you will be condemned.

The good news is that you do NOT have to obey,

and if you do, you will be sent to Hell.

This should keep you on your toes and in line.

Do not fear God, just fear obeying Him, and you will be on the right track.

It is the secret to salvation.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
IN ADDITION,

If, after you are saved by being careful NOT to obey anything ever,

if you find after you are saved that you obey some things,

deny any of it, and announce that you cannot obey and that you are always a sinner.

If God should hear you that you obeyed, He will punish you with Hell for that obedience,

for obedience is not being obedient.
 
God's Truth

God's Truth

New member
beloved57: I got saved by not obey anything God said, I did not believe or do anything

Pate: I got saved by believing, which is not obeying, because I was careful not to obey.
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
God's Truth said:
Pate says we are saved by making sure we do not do one thing of obedience if we want to be saved.

beloved57 says we are saved by making sure we do not obey anything in anyway, not even believe.

They both teach nonsense and you support it.
Click to expand...


Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners. You don't qualify.
 
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