ECT How is Paul's message different?

[Clete]

Like I said I rest most of it and quite honestly more than I care to already.

There is no argument no scripture that goes against the oneness found in Christ Jew, Greek, Gentile it doesn't matter.

No I know for certain that you haven't read it because I've never suggested otherwise.

There is only one way to take part in Him. Grace!

Tell that to Moses.

If you don't care to respond, I'm fine with that. I've said what my conscious and His word has convicted me of.

I can't speak for your conscience but God's word certainly does not persuade you to lie.

"eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope that belongs to your call--one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all..." Epeshians 4:3-6

A proof text you could only quote if you had NOT read the thread.

Pathetic.

What in the world is the point of lying about such a thing? If you didn't want to discuss it why are you even on this thread?

Do not answer that! I'll ignore any other post you make on this thread.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

OK. You explain the context.



I am on it. You need to catch up!




Like I said, you need to catch up. I well understand the whole thing and his remarks, admonitions, instructions and otherwise 'gospel' is applicable across the board.




I am attempting nothing of the sort and told you so.



Why not consider you don't know what you are talking about?



Yeah, resting. That's it! Time to wake up!!

You are a lunatic or stupid. Either way, you're incapable of a linear conversation. There was never any hope of me making an inch of progress with you from the start. I'll waste no more of my time on the effort.

 

[Cross Reference]

You are a lunatic or stupid. Either way, you're incapable of a linear conversation. There was never any hope of me making an inch of progress with you from the start. I'll waste no more of my time on the effort.

Why did even begin to except you wish to play teacher instead of sharing with someone who may have something to offer from a different perspective that just might have enriched yours? But no, you decided you would start in conceit and insults. <pity>

 

[Clete]

Why did even begin to except you wish to play teacher instead of sharing with someone who may have something to offer from a different perspective that just might have enriched yours? But no, you decided you would start in conceit and insults. <pity>

You were on my ignore list when this thread was started, CR!

You made some half way substantive posts and so I took you off my ignore list and engaged you directly, answering every post as you posted it with as much substance and clarity as I offered to Turbosixx or as I offer to anyone who is responsive and substantive.

You went off the deep end and stopped being anything but a jerk and started back up with the same stupidity that landed you on my ignore list to begin with.

I will not waste time with stupidity. If you want to start talking down to me as though I'm stupid or just start repeating yourself as though no one has made a substantive response then you'll get one of two results from me. I'll put you on my ignore list so I that when I see you've posted, I'll know before reading it what I'm likely dealing with or else I'll find some way to use you, in spite of yourself, to make my point for me. I am not here to make friends. If I make friends in the course of engaging in substantive conversations and debates then that terrific but that's not what I'm here for. I don't care if I hurt your feelings and I do not care if you like me. If you don't like what I say, prove me wrong or whine and cry about it. Whatever you want, its a free country. Just don't expect me to waste my time because you can't follow a linear conversation.

 

[Cross Reference]

You were on my ignore list when this thread was started, CR!

You made some half way substantive posts and so I took you off my ignore list and engaged you directly, answering every post as you posted it with as much substance and clarity as I offered to Turbosixx or as I offer to anyone who is responsive and substantive.

You went off the deep end and stopped being anything but a jerk and started back up with the same stupidity that landed you on my ignore list to begin with.

I will not waste time with stupidity. If you want to start talking down to me as though I'm stupid or just start repeating yourself as though no one has made a substantive response then you'll get one of two results from me. I'll put you on my ignore list so I that when I see you've posted, I'll know before reading it what I'm likely dealing with or else I'll find some way to use you, in spite of yourself, to make my point for me. I am not here to make friends. If I make friends in the course of engaging in substantive conversations and debates then that terrific but that's not what I'm here for. I don't care if I hurt your feelings and I do not care if you like me. If you don't like what I say, prove me wrong or whine and cry about it. Whatever you want, its a free country. Just don't expect me to waste my time because you can't follow a linear conversation.

I'll be happy to point out when you are wrong or incomplete. But you can't stand the criticism and then begin to look for cracks in the argument that might excuse you from staying on subject..

 

[Shasta]

Post numbers, please.

So far as I know, I've responded to everything.

That is except for where you are trying to get me to read your mind. I don't participate in such things.

The only thing I'll give you is that Jesus said exactly what He meant and whatever passage you have in mind means EXACTLY what it seems to say - IN CONTEXT! The book of Revelation is written to and about ISRAEL, not the Body of Christ.

Now, if you have a point to make, make it.

Or don't, I don't care which. You've proven to be jerk that has no intention of having a real conversation anyway so suit yourself.

Resting in Him,
Clete

Nothing is mentioned in those letters about being Jew or Gentile. You have imported your presuppositions through eisegesis without supporting it with internal or external evidence. Both, in fact, are against you.

 

[Shasta]

Galatians 2:7-8 New King James Version (NKJV)

7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter
8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

A long time ago I had two friends who became missionaries. One was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Indian people. The other was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Brazilian people.

Would you assume from reading this true statement that my two friends taught two entirely different gospels? If so, then you would be wrong. What both men taught and believed was identical. The only difference between them was not their message but their respective missions.

 

[Bright Raven]

A long time ago I had two friends who became missionaries. One was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Indian people. The other was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Brazilian people.

Would you assume from reading this true statement that my two friends taught two entirely different gospels? If so, then you would be wrong. What both men taught and believed was identical. The only difference between them was not their message but their respective missions.

Peter taught the Gospel according to Acts 2:38. Paul taught the Gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Are they the same?

 

[DAN P]

A long time ago I had two friends who became missionaries. One was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Indian people. The other was entrusted with the gospel (to or for) the Brazilian people.

Would you assume from reading this true statement that my two friends taught two entirely different gospels? If so, then you would be wrong. What both men taught and believed was identical. The only difference between them was not their message but their respective missions.

Hi and today is the dispensation of the Grace of God , so it does not make any difference who or what ethnicity you preach to , because in the Age of Grace it will always be the Grace of God !!

During the Great Tribulation it will be the Gospel in Mark 16:15-18 which is a different Gospel and different AGE !!:bang::bang:

DAN P

 

[Cross Reference]

Peter taught the Gospel according to Acts 2:38. Paul taught the Gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Are they the same?

He is asking why wouldn't they be the same? Perhaps you can shed some light on why you believe they weren't?

 

[Bright Raven]

He is asking why wouldn't they be the same? Perhaps you can shed some light on why you believe they weren't?

You did not read the two scriptures, did you. Read them and you will know.

 

[patrick jane]

He is asking why wouldn't they be the same? Perhaps you can shed some light on why you believe they weren't?

Two different gospels

 

[Cross Reference]

Two different gospels

Show where it is "two different gospels" but rather a validation of what Peter declared?

 

[Cross Reference]

You did not read the two scriptures, did you. Read them and you will know.

". . . Acts 2:38. . . . 1 Corinthians 15:1-4."

Show where there are "two different gospels" but rather a validation of the one Peter declared?

 

[Clete]

Nothing is mentioned in those letters about being Jew or Gentile. You have imported your presuppositions through eisegesis without supporting it with internal or external evidence. Both, in fact, are against you.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You might have saved yourself some typing by simply posting, "You're wrong!".

It would have been no more valid but quite a bit faster.

And yes, there is mention of Jews in the letters.

Revelation 2:10 and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
​

And that's the references to Jews and/or Judaism in the seven letters. The rest of Revelation, all of which was written as one book by one author, is just plumb full of references to Israel...

Revelation 4:1 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.


Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.


Revelation 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
​

And that doesn't exhaust the references to Israel. I just listed the most undeniable examples.

Incidentally, notice how there are twelve apostles, not thirteen. Notice also that the bride of Christ is clearly identified as the City of Jerusalem upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve apostles.

There are other arguments I could make. The prominence given to works, for example as well as the multiple times works and faith are cited together as being required to keep from finding yourself in the Lake of Fire. In direct opposition to Paul's gospel.

The message of Revelation is so starkly clear that it leave but one set of alternatives. Either Paul's gospel is different and applies to a separate body of believers known as the Body of Christ; or we are supposed to be Messianic Jews and Paul is a false teacher.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Clete]

I'll be happy to point out when you are wrong or incomplete. But you can't stand the criticism and then begin to look for cracks in the argument that might excuse you from staying on subject..

If you can refute a syllable of what I've said, I'll hear it gladly! That's the whole point of this website!

But you don't debate, you don't discuss. You preach and proclaim. Things are not so just because you state them as facts. My post quoted above your post doesn't magically make your post relevant to what you quoted. You have to do more than simply state that I'm wrong or have been incomplete, you have to explain why you think that! It is not my responsibility to make sure you understand, that's YOUR responsibility! I cannot read your mind and I am not required to repeat myself until what I've said finally sinks in. If your post is unresponsive or misses the point then I will tell you so and will, more often than not, restate my point another way. If you continue to misunderstand then you have to ask questions not blow me off as stupid or just blithely continue to repeat yourself as though you've not been responded too.

In short, you have to be intellectually honest!

And poking holes in your logic is the whole point of debate! If you don't like it when people poke holes in your doctrine then you have really picked the worst possible hobby! If you think that my doing so strays too far afield then say so and explain yourself. I've done as much many times! I've done so on this thread with Turbosixx; one of the most intellectually stimulating conversations I've had with anyone on this topic in my whole life!

If you want to actually discuss this stuff then so do I! Discuss things with intellectual integrity and maturity as though the topic is of some serious importance and complexity and we'll get along just fine.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Cross Reference]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You might have saved yourself some typing by simply posting, "You're wrong!".

It would have been no more valid but quite a bit faster.

And yes, there is mention of Jews in the letters.

Revelation 2:10 and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
​

And that's the references to Jews and/or Judaism in the seven letters. The rest of Revelation, all of which was written as one book by one author, is just plumb full of references to Israel...

Revelation 4:1 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.


Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.


Revelation 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
​

And that doesn't exhaust the references to Israel. I just listed the most undeniable examples.

Incidentally, notice how there are twelve apostles, not thirteen. Notice also that the bride of Christ is clearly identified as the City of Jerusalem upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve apostles.

There are other arguments I could make. The prominence given to works, for example as well as the multiple times works and faith are cited together as being required to keep from finding yourself in the Lake of Fire. In direct opposition to Paul's gospel.

The message of Revelation is so starkly clear that it leave but one set of alternatives. Either Paul's gospel is different and applies to a separate body of believers known as the Body of Christ; or we are supposed to be Messianic Jews and Paul is a false teacher.

Resting in Him,
Clete

So what do you want to discuss, Clete? . .

 

[DAN P]

So what do you want to discuss, Clete? . .

Hi and Clete has not answered , so I am ready , what about YOU ??

Lets start with Eph 3:9 or you can FLAKE OUT , so what will you do ??

dan p

 

[Shasta]

Peter taught the Gospel according to Acts 2:38. Paul taught the Gospel according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Are they the same?

Why not stick with what you posted first before moving on to another passage. You presented Galatians 2:7 as if it were a self-evident proof of MAD's position. You used the NKJV which reads as follows:

7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter (Galatians 2:7 NKJV)

I constructed a sentence similar in form in content about two missionary friends of mine. Since "circumcision" and "uncircumcision" refer to two peoples I substituted the ethnic groups my friends were sent to.

...the gospel for the Brazilians was committed to Friend A just as the gospel for the Indians was to Friend B.

If this sentence were found written somewhere 100 years from now. I can imagine someone who knew neither Friend A or B, who was not in the meeting that sent them might conclude that my friends were sent out with two different gospels. Since I was there, I know that the two men believed the same thing. However, the way each would go about delivering the gospel would be different depending on the language, customs of the people and how much background knowledge they had about the Bible and the Faith.

I brought this up because you seem to think there is no other way to read this but through a MAD filter but I can tell you with certainty the translators of the KJV did not intend for THEIR translation to be read that way and I doubt if the writers of the NKJV did either. Therefore I conclude that meaning is being read into the words that is not there.

Since there is no preposition in the verse others can be used to express the relationship between the nouns.

The word Apostle means literally "sent out with a message" or it can mean an envoy or emissary. Since the “message” the “emissary” carries is FOR a certain people some translators have chosen to express the “genitive” case with the English preposition FOR.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel FOR the uncircumcised, just as Peter was for the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

International Standard Version
In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel FOR the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel for the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

Galatians 2:7-8 (NKJV)
7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel FOR the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter

Since Apostles are sent TO a place or people the preposition TO is also valid:

New International Version
On the contrary, they recognized that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel TO the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

New Living Translation
Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel TO the Gentiles, just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews (Galatians 2:7).

English Standard Version
On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospelTO the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

Berean Study Bible
On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted to preach the gospelTO the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews (Galatians 2:7).
.
New American Standard Bible
But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel TO the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

NET Bible
On the contrary, when they saw that I was entrusted with the gospel TO the uncircumcised just as Peter was to the circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

GOD'S WORD® Translation
In fact, they saw that I had been entrusted with telling the Good News TO people who are not circumcised as Peter had been entrusted to tell it to those who are circumcised (Galatians 2:7).

Lexham English Bible 7 But these, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel TO the uncircumcision, just as Peter TO the circumcision

The way this verse has been translated in these various versions does not come out of a conspiracy to subvert the grammar in order to hide MAD. It comes directly out of textual/grammatical considerations.

 

[Shasta]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

You might have saved yourself some typing by simply posting, "You're wrong!".

It would have been no more valid but quite a bit faster.

And yes, there is mention of Jews in the letters.

Revelation 2:10 and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

14 But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality.

Revelation 3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.

12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
​

And that's the references to Jews and/or Judaism in the seven letters. The rest of Revelation, all of which was written as one book by one author, is just plumb full of references to Israel...

Revelation 4:1 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:

5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 11:1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.


Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.


Revelation 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

Revelation 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
​

And that doesn't exhaust the references to Israel. I just listed the most undeniable examples.

Incidentally, notice how there are twelve apostles, not thirteen. Notice also that the bride of Christ is clearly identified as the City of Jerusalem upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and upon who's gates are written the names of the twelve apostles.

There are other arguments I could make. The prominence given to works, for example as well as the multiple times works and faith are cited together as being required to keep from finding yourself in the Lake of Fire. In direct opposition to Paul's gospel.

The message of Revelation is so starkly clear that it leave but one set of alternatives. Either Paul's gospel is different and applies to a separate body of believers known as the Body of Christ; or we are supposed to be Messianic Jews and Paul is a false teacher.

Resting in Him,
Clete

When I said it is not written to Jews I did not mean Jews were not mentioned in the letter. Why would I say that since prophecy has much to do with them. I meant that the book was not addressed specifically "to the Jews" nor were the Seven Letters which were written to existing Churches written "to the Jews at Smyrna" "to the Jews at Ephesus" (etc). You seem to think references to the Jews in the Revelation means the book is not intended for the edification of all Christians multitudes of whom will be a part of those events. If the mention of Jewish matters makes a book or letter "not for Gentile Christians" then you must not think the OT is scripture "profitable for doctrine" because that is just about all it is about. Paul did not think that way. When he said "all scripture was inspired he was talking about the OT."

As to the seven Churches mentioned in Revelation there is no reason to suppose they are all Jewish (if that is what you are implying). For example, one of the cities mentioned is Ephesus. Ephesus was originally evangelized by Paul. When Paul first arrived he found it to be dominated by idolatry and had a difficult time reaching them (Acts 18:19) Later he went back and spent three years teaching there. By the time he writes his letter to them they have grown considerably and we see both Jews as well as Gentiles worshiping together. Although the Church consisted of both groups Paul describes them as one BODY. The way you and your camp use the term "Body of Christ" sounds like code for some kind of Pauline Denomination. This verse shows Paul using the term Body for the entire assembly of believers, Jews and Gentiles.

His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility (Ephesians 2:14-15).

The Church of Ephesus is also mentioned in the Revelation. Are we to suppose that it was a segregated Jewish Congregation then after all Paul had done to teach them that they were one Body? Perhaps we to assume that when Christ speaks to the Church at Ephesus he is only speaking to one portion of a divided Church - after He had endured the suffering of the cross to unite them into one man?

Though Paul laid the foundation of the Churches of Asia Minor, years after his death the Early Church Fathers record that the Apostle John moved to Ephesus and assumed a leadership role there. They say John wrote both his Gospel and the Revelation there. From Ephesus John was sent into exile on Patmos (which was near Ephesus). They say this occurred during the reign of Domitian which was in the last part of the century. After John's return and they record that the Apostle remained active in ministry until the reign of Trajan. John was said to have taught leaders throughout the entire region of Asia minor. Thus he had considerable impact on the Gentile world.

Some of what you have said in Revelation pertains future events - like the convocation of various tribes. I have no idea how that will happen but I have seen no evidence that it happened back in the First Century. You relegate all kinds of things to the Jews that we will be a part of. You seem to characterize John's mention of the New Jerusalem as something "Jewish" but Paul talks about it too (Galatians 4:26). Another sign that it is a Jewish book is supposed to be the fact that it mentions the "ark" but the ark John sees is the heavenly antitype, the pattern of which was replicated in the tabernacle. The heavenly ark is the same "throne of grace" that believers come to find help in times of need. It is true that "Temple" is a "Jewish" word but there is a heavenly temple long before Solomon built his. Yes, the names of the Apostles are on the doors of the New Jerusalem. Why? As a memorial, so people will see it coming and going. I believe the City is a structure. If it were symbolic it would not have measurements - unless you think the measurements are symbolic too. The names of the 12 tribes are memorialized there too to remind us of the heritage we were grafted into. We were grafted into the root the Jews sprang from. Your doctrine tears apart the unity Christ created when he brought the two races into one. It undermines the unity Paul worked so hard to establish. You have gone as far as to envision a segregated afterlife.

I believe the goal of MAD is to establish an antinomian Gospel disguised as "free grace" Paul never taught such a thing nor did his successors in Church History.