Theology Club: HOW ARE WE SAVED TODAY ?

[DAN P]

Hi , and just where does it ay that Baptism comes POST salvation

Where does Paul say that ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

and are you advocating that mute people can NOT be saved then?


.

Hi , and I never said that , you did !!

Are you accusing God of being Un-just ??

In Rom 10:8 , But what does it say ? The Word is near you , in your mouth and in your heart , that is , the word of faith which we preach .

And , by the way , I am not a Calvinist !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Hi , and it is obvious , that you do not know what the Perfect Tense means in Eph 2:8 ??

SAVED/SOZO is in the Greek Perfect Tense , Passive Voice and a Participle !!

It should read , " For by Grace , HAVING BEEN SAVED " is the correct Translation .

But , you did not know that ??

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Hi , and there is a TWO PRESENT TENSE verb in Rom 10:10 , " MAN BELIEVETH " and " Confession is made " and also in the Passive Voice and in the Indicative Mood of FACT .

The Present tense speaks to CONTINUOUS ACTION in the present time !!

Check the internet and see , is what I do !!

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and in Eph 2:12 , we see that Gentiles were strangers from the Covenants of Promise .

Gentiles had no Covenant with God at all , as it it all by Grace !!

dan p

You're going from what you said about Jews in Acts 2 having a covenant, which they no longer had at that point, to a verse in Eph 2:12 about Paul explaining there was no need for Gentiles to become Jews anymore.
I'm really not sure what you're NOT getting about the NEW covenant?

 

[Jacob]

Dan,

Could a person be saved before Jesus died?

Untellectual

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and in 1 Cor 13:8 and 11 , Tongues are CHILDISH things , so much for Tongues , as Tongues were for Israel !!
dan p

This is NOT proper exegesis. You don't take two separate verses and try to put their thoughts together, to support YOUR opinion, when they don't go together. That is called eisegesis\, and is NOT acceptable by any competent Biblical scholar.
1 Cor 13:8-10 is one thought. 1 Cor 13:11, 12, 13 are three different thoughts. This is a totally disingenuous way of asserting your bias against tongues.

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and just where does it ay that Baptism comes POST salvation

Where does Paul say that ??

dan p

Acts 19:1-7 is a good example.

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and I never said that , you did !!

Are you accusing God of being Un-just ??

In Rom 10:8 , But what does it say ? The Word is near you , in your mouth and in your heart , that is , the word of faith which we preach .

And , by the way , I am not a Calvinist !!

dan p

That's right, I asked you a question based on your strong statement of "with ( the ) mouth he CONFESSES to SALVATION !!" in your post. What was your intent of capitalizing these words? Do you believe those who CAN'T confess Jesus with their mouth and vocal cords are NOT saved?

Why do you answer a question with another question?

I have no idea why you provided me with Rom 10:8?

You just support Calvinist views then is it?

 

[DAN P]

Dan,

Could a person be saved before Jesus died?

Untellectual

Hi , and Abraham , Issac , and Jacob were saved before Jesus died , what say you ?

And they we be in the Millennial Kingdom , Matt 8:11 !!

dan p

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and it is obvious , that you do not know what the Perfect Tense means in Eph 2:8 ??
SAVED/SOZO is in the Greek Perfect Tense , Passive Voice and a Participle !!
It should read , " For by Grace , HAVING BEEN SAVED " is the correct Translation .
But , you did not know that ??
dan p

Well I'm not sure who you are trying to impress, but most modern English versions clearly show Paul is addressing his present audience in the past tense as far as their salvation is concerned. They all pretty much say; "have been saved" See here Are you trying to tell us you know better than over 250 Biblical scholars that translated these five versions?
What kind of credentials do you actually have?

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and there is a TWO PRESENT TENSE verb in Rom 10:10 , " MAN BELIEVETH " and " Confession is made " and also in the Passive Voice and in the Indicative Mood of FACT .

The Present tense speaks to CONTINUOUS ACTION in the present time !!

Check the internet and see , is what I do !!

I suggest you learn to use the response tools properly. They are kind of screwed up in their format.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make here. Maybe you can try this one again without trying to impress me with the grammatical jargon.

 

[DAN P]

Acts 19:1-7 is a good example.

Hi , and a good example of Water Baptism ??

Or , does Acts 19:6 speak to what happened in Acts 2 , where they spoke in Tongues and Prophesied , as the apostles did in Acts 2:17-18 ??

I have to leave as my time is all used up !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

I suggest you learn to use the response tools properly. They are kind of screwed up in their format.

I have no idea what point you were trying to make here. Maybe you can try this one again without trying to impress me with the grammatical jargon.

Hi , and my time is gone and I tried to hurry !!

You should learn what verb tense mean , as some verses have up to 5 verbs that describe ACTION and these tenses are not just JARGON and I take as an answer of " I do not know what they mean , and that you SHOULD learn them !!

dan p

 

[Jacob]

Hi , and Abraham , Issac , and Jacob were saved before Jesus died , what say you ?

And they we be in the Millennial Kingdom , Matt 8:11 !!

dan p

I don't know.

This is a great verse meaning do we want to discuss it further.

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and a good example of Water Baptism ??

Or , does Acts 19:6 speak to what happened in Acts 2 , where they spoke in Tongues and Prophesied , as the apostles did in Acts 2:17-18 ??

I have to leave as my time is all used up !!

dan p

I don't think so. It doesn't say anything about water baptism. It talks about the Holy Spirit baptism.

This is a separate incident apart from Acts 2 obviously.

 

[StanJ53]

Hi , and my time is gone and I tried to hurry !!

You should learn what verb tense mean , as some verses have up to 5 verbs that describe ACTION and these tenses are not just JARGON and I take as an answer of " I do not know what they mean , and that you SHOULD learn them !!
dan p

You act like someone who has just discovered English.
Are you learning it now? Trust me I don't need to learn English from you. BTW, what were those credentials again?
I DIDN'T say "I do not know what they mean", I said, "I have no idea what point you were trying to make here".

See the difference?

 

[rcetc]

Hi and there many positions as to when the Body of Christ began !!

#1 , Some say the Body of Christ began in the Garden with Adam and Eve , which are called Covenant or Reformed Theologians !!

#2 , Then you have Acts 2 people , who say the Body of Christ began at Acts 2 , with Pentecost , on a Jewish Festival !!

#3 , The there are those in the Acts period who begin it with Paul , Acts 9 ; Acts 11 ; Acts 13 ; and Acts 28 er's !!

I am Acts 9:6 , a Pauline Dispensationalist !!

dan p

Technically speaking the body of Christ started at the time of the resurrection. How do we know this? The scriptures state that Christ while three days and three nights in the earth took the O.T. Saints to heaven. Thus, from this time forward all those that died in Christ went to heaven not sheol or the divided place for the dead. The empowering of the body of Christ came at Pentecost 50days later.

Also if you read Acts, the church was already happening before Paul. God spoke to a disciple of Christ to go get Paul in his time of blindness. Was this person not part of the body of Christ because Paul was not on the seen yet? Paul spent three years in the mountains with Christ to be discipled. Was the Church put on hold until Paul completed his training? Something to think about.

 

[Nick M]

Also if you read Acts, the church was already happening before Paul..

There was a church before Paul, but it was the circumcision. AKA, Israel. Paul's church, the Body of Christ began with Paul. Paul did not endure to the end, nor was he required to endure to the end. Paul says he is the pattern, the proptype for the Body of Christ. Do you know what a prototype is?

 

[DAN P]

I don't know.

This is a great verse meaning do we want to discuss it further.

Hi , and why not start a thread on , on Matt 8:11 , as it is very deep !!

dan p