Homeschooling Opponents

Mark Tindall

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Yorzhik said:
That isn't true. Without that foundation your vitriol seems misplaced.


How many hours a day is spent on average for homeschooling? How do you know? Quote author, article, date, journal.

If a professional educator needs 5 days a week an DIY amateur will need more time to achieve the same outcome.

Discussing the realities of homeschooling is not vitriol. It is only vitriol to happy happy joy joy brain-dead fundamentalists in the current Fundamentalist Dark Age who dare not think or discuss the CONS of homeschooling.
 

Mark Tindall

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Yorzhik said:
And one more thing. Professional educators know how bad the system is, and yet they support it; thus they are more guilty than most others.

Homeschoolers are well aware of the CONS and DISADVANTAGES of homeschooling, and yet they support it; thus they are more guilty than most others.

Is this about discussing HOMESCHOOL or the bad aspects of public schooling????

Why are you so FEARFUL of public schools????
 

Mark Tindall

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Yorzhik said:
Again, the bolded statement is wrong. Again it is your foundational statement and thus destroys your argument.

The quote was "It is again a matter of right wing fundamentalist Christians discriminating against the poor."

If a right wing fundamentalist church has a banker (usurer) in their midst they are more likely to make him / her an elder than tackle what the bible says about usury.

By their fruit you will know them. How are the poor helped by right-wing politics?

How many times did Jesus mention the poor?

How difficult is it for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? What did Jesus say?

What does the bible say about usury? How many sermons on usury have you heard at your church?

It's time that Christians Christened Christendom.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Strooth said:
How many degrees in education does the average homeschooler have?

It doesn't take a degree in method to teach your own children :)

Homeskool as DIY Brainsurgery

I use the ABeka accredited DVD curriculum. :) Maybe 5th grade work is "brainsurgery" for you, but so far it appears I can handle all the "tough" problems she has.
 

Mark Tindall

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Nineveh said:
It doesn't take a degree in method to teach your own children :)


Then perhaps it doesn't take a degree in surgery to do brain surgery. Read my parable of Homeschooling as DIY Brain Surgery.


Nineveh said:
I use the ABeka accredited DVD curriculum. :) Maybe 5th grade work is "brainsurgery" for you, but so far it appears I can handle all the "tough" problems she has.


How well is the problem.

Anyone can also do DIY Brain Surgery ... how well is also the problem there too.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Strooth said:
Then perhaps it doesn't take a degree in surgery to do brain surgery. Read my parable of Homeschooling as DIY Brain Surgery.

If you really think 5th grade work is the stuff of brain surgery, who am I to argue?

How well is the problem.

Elementary algebra isn't that tough, really.

Anyone can also do DIY Brain Surgery ... how well is also the problem there too.

Like I said, if 5th grade is really that hard for you, perhaps you should send your kids outside your home to be educated. Speaking of... do you have any children?
 

Mark Tindall

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Nineveh said:
If you really think 5th grade work is the stuff of brain surgery, who am I to argue?

If you really think amateur DIY brain surgery is for everyone, who am I to argue? .... though it may be a problem for anyone you operate on. .... Maybe you've tried it on yourself and that is the problem.

My point is that your attempts in homeschool may be ameurish DIY and ineffective. How do you really know what is going on? Do you assess your children or just evaluate them? What criteria is used? Who set the criteria? Do you know anything about child development, learning styles, teaching methodolgy, etc?


Nineveh said:
Speaking of... do you have any children?

Yep. Three daughters.
 

docrob57

New member
Strooth said:
Then perhaps it doesn't take a degree in surgery to do brain surgery. Read my parable of Homeschooling as DIY Brain Surgery.





How well is the problem.

Anyone can also do DIY Brain Surgery ... how well is also the problem there too.

Both I and my wife are far more qualified as teachers than, I would say, ummmm . . .maybe 100% of the public school teahers out there. And I believe this to be true of most homeschooling parents. The fact that in this day and age you identify with the left suggests, however, that you should be right at home in a public school environment.
 

Yorzhik

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Strooth said:
Rubbish!

Quote author, article, journal, date.

You will find that a vast majority are fundamentalists trying to prove their case!

I also call you on how character". What are the criteria for character and how is it objectively measured?
Not only do we know it is true through studies as have already been listed, but we know it is true in other ways. BTW, having a bias does not make something wrong. I notice you only mentioned bias as your refutation of the studies already listed. But we can get insight into the state of academics of homeschooling by things like universities that court homeschoolers and by the lack of studies to the contrary when groups like the AFT would kill to get such a study. With this in mind you calling "rubbish" seems a mindless rant.

And on to character: so would you say then that we really have no way to judge whether public schools develop better or worse character than homeschooling? And thus you wouldn't claim that public schools develop better character than homeschooling, correct?
 

avatar382

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I think homeschool is great for the families it fits.

I also think that public school is great for the familiies that paradigm fits. I went to a public school, and was satisfied with the education I recieved and the opportunities I had. My favorite times were invovlement in high school sports. I ran track, swam on swim team, and played football and badminton. Advanced Placement courses were also an excellent opportinity since I recieved almost 30 college credits.

My exroomate in college was homeschooled and he is extremely intellegent and learned, I remember being extremely impressed when I met him. Of course, both of his parents had graduate degrees, and his mother taught in a university... so, as the old saying goes... your mileage may vary.

I would hate to think what the result would be of a parent trying to homeschool who did it half-heartdly, either out of necessity or apathy...

More than public school, I see television as the enemy. (I don't mean to derail this thread) When I am a parent, I am going to restrict TV watching to not more than a single hour a day, and then only Discovery/Learning channel. The marketing/consumerism being passed on to kids is quite horrible!
 

Yorzhik

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Strooth said:
How many hours a day is spent on average for homeschooling? How do you know? Quote author, article, date, journal.

If a professional educator needs 5 days a week an DIY amateur will need more time to achieve the same outcome.

Discussing the realities of homeschooling is not vitriol. It is only vitriol to happy happy joy joy brain-dead fundamentalists in the current Fundamentalist Dark Age who dare not think or discuss the CONS of homeschooling.
Great; someone who debates with tactics instead of substance. Instead of refuting the claim I made you decided to bring up another subject. We can discuss the time it takes to teach if you'd like. However, your claim that homeschoolers never discuss the problems of homeschooling is wrong. For instance, problems with time management are constantly cited among homeschoolers as something that needs to be guarded against.

But I don't think that's what you consider as a problem for homeschoolers. Why don't you list what you think is the single biggest problem with homeschooling and we'll discuss it. And then we can go on to the next problem in your list - and keep going until you are satisfied that I've been fully informed about the problems with homeschooling.
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Strooth said:
If you really think amateur DIY brain surgery is for everyone, who am I to argue? .... though it may be a problem for anyone you operate on. .... Maybe you've tried it on yourself and that is the problem.

It's funny you try to accuse a pullik skool grad of being too ignorant to handle questions from a 5th grader. If I weren't a recovering pullik skool grad, I'd prolly have to agree with you :)

Perhaps you missed what curriculum I use, the only difference between me and the pullik skool down the street is that I use the DVD version while they pay a teacher, that and they most likely skip the Bible class.

My point is that your attempts in homeschool may be ameurish DIY and ineffective. How do you really know what is going on? Do you assess your children or just evaluate them? What criteria is used? Who set the criteria? Do you know anything about child development, learning styles, teaching methodolgy, etc?

I don't have to wait 6 weeks to know where my daughter needs help. I grade her almost daily. ABeka sets the curve, which happens to be higher than the private school she was attending. I don't have to know everything about "child development, learning styles, teaching methodolgy", I only have to know what's going on with my daughter. That's another advantage. I don't have to try forcing 30 kids into a cookie cutter, I can focus on the needs of my one child :)

Yep. Three daughters.

Do/did you homeschool?

I see you are banned, I can wait for your reply :)
 

Yorzhik

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Strooth said:
Homeschoolers are well aware of the CONS and DISADVANTAGES of homeschooling, and yet they support it; thus they are more guilty than most others.

Is this about discussing HOMESCHOOL or the bad aspects of public schooling????

Why are you so FEARFUL of public schools????
Good point. Certainly, if homeschooling was hurting a child more than it was helping then the parents would be more guilty than others. The problem is that public school is hurting more than it is helping. Not only are the children poorly served by the low-grade academics, but they are taught that they are animals and that their parents are not to be trusted.

I'm sure you don't agree with that, so let's determine if homeschooling is hurting kids or helping them. We can start with what you think is the worst problem and after that one is discussed we can go on to the next one.

Determining that Public schools were hurting kids more than helping them is not only through the mountain of anecdotal evidence, but the published policies of the teacher's unions and the response to crises like school shootings. If kids would stay home and do housework all day and no school work they would be better off.

And, I'm fearful of public schools because they make the adults that need fixing after having been broken in the public schools. I also don't like laws that force me to send my kids to these child-breakers. I don't like paying for public school either, but if the government would just not require that I let them raise my kids I would settle for that.

Strooth said:
The quote was "It is again a matter of right wing fundamentalist Christians discriminating against the poor."

If a right wing fundamentalist church has a banker (usurer) in their midst they are more likely to make him / her an elder than tackle what the bible says about usury.

By their fruit you will know them. How are the poor helped by right-wing politics?

How many times did Jesus mention the poor?

How difficult is it for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? What did Jesus say?

What does the bible say about usury? How many sermons on usury have you heard at your church?

It's time that Christians Christened Christendom.
This is the second time you don't seem to be able to keep on topic. I'm beginning to think you have a lack of conversation skills. You should give conversation a try and give your debating tactics a rest.

To make it more clear, even though I shouldn't have to, let me restate your statement in context: "It is again a matter of right wing fundamentalist Christians discriminating against the poor [to discourage public school and encourage homeschooling]." To which I replied "That statement is incorrect." If you want to talk about that other church topic we can do that too, but let's talk about one thing at a time, ok? You need to have a statement that actually supports your claim that homeschooling discriminates against the poor. I can support my statement. The poor do not need to spend much money on education, they just need to have decent character and most of the problems they perceive in homeschooling would go away. I'm sure you've heard the saying, "They don't steal because they are poor, they are poor because they steal."
 

Yorzhik

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I'll await Strooth's reply as well.

BTW... the brain surgery analogy isn't really an analogy. Brain surgery can be directly applied as simply another topic of learning. Strooth... do you have a better analogy?
 

Melody

New member
Strooth said:
Exactly! This is never mentioned by homeschoolers because they want to paint a rosey picture of perfection. A working single parent is fighting an uphill abttle to survive let alone try to homeschool.

The same is also true to a lesser extent for parents who both work.

Professional educators teach for a living so homeschooling is like having an second job.


I am a single parent and am successfully homeschooling my two children. Do I do it alone? Of course not, I have the support of a friend that cares for my children's transportation to P.E. and music lessons and my children do their lessons on the computer while I am at work. Switched on Schoolhouse is wonderful.
 

docrob57

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Melody said:
I am a single parent and am successfully homeschooling my two children. Do I do it alone? Of course not, I have the support of a friend that cares for my children's transportation to P.E. and music lessons and my children do their lessons on the computer while I am at work. Switched on Schoolhouse is wonderful.
:up:
 

Melody

New member
Strooth said:
How many hours a day is spent on average for homeschooling? How do you know? Quote author, article, date, journal.

If a professional educator needs 5 days a week an DIY amateur will need more time to achieve the same outcome.

Discussing the realities of homeschooling is not vitriol. It is only vitriol to happy happy joy joy brain-dead fundamentalists in the current Fundamentalist Dark Age who dare not think or discuss the CONS of homeschooling.

That so-called professional educator is attempting to teach 25 - 40 students at a time. And teaching politically correct garbage at that.

Even you should be able to understand that teaching 1 or 2 children would not take as much time as 25- 40.
 
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