Theology Club: Hid From Them, By Them...

[glorydaz]

Here we can see that both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ:

I don't think anyone denies that. Paul, himself, was a Jew.

All of the Jewish believers living in the first century did indeed call on the name of Jesus Christ so therefore all of them belonged to the Body of Christ.

All of them? Even those who John said had no truth in them? Those who John said walked in darkness "even now"?

Just wondering. Please don't feel pressured into answering.

 

[Danoh]

Aw, come on, Glory; you give in, you're gonna spoil the fun...

 

[glorydaz]

Aw, come on, Glory; you give in, you're gonna spoil the fun...

Not to worry.....we'll get some new material tomorrow.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

All of them? Even those who John said had no truth in them? Those who John said walked in darkness "even now"?

Here are Paul's words and it is "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

Obviously the Twelve would be included but you proudly defy the word of the Scriptures and declare that they are not included.

That is because you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

As many of Stam's own people no longer hold to some his views; some years ago, a guy from Stam's own camp dusted Jerry on this with verse after verse after verse. Jerry's best? One or two quotes from I forget who... followed by his never being heard from again.

Of course you forgot who because that never happened.

Aw, come on, Glory; you give in, you're gonna spoil the fun...

Are you really having fun embarrassing yourselves?

 

[Danoh]

Here are Paul's words and it is "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord":

"Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's" (1 Cor.1:2).​

Obviously the Twelve would be included but you proudly defy the word of the Scriptures and declare that they are not included.

That is because you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures actually say.

And what we should do is put faith in what you - a man - says about that passage.

For that is your "obviously the Twelve would be included."

Even if you were right in your interpretation; and even if you were to communicate it clearly; you still have no business turning every thread; regardless of its OP, or what have you, into this hounding of yours once more.

Wow, for how many years having you been hounding others in that way now?

Yours is who; not what, is right.

You are "to be blamed."

 

[glorydaz]

Obviously the Twelve would be included but you proudly defy the word of the Scriptures and declare that they are not included.

You just continue to crack me up, Jerry. I "defy" you to find one single time I have ever claimed the twelve were either in or out of the body of Christ. Spend some time....look high and low. :rotfl:

Are you really having fun embarrassing yourselves?

I'm having a little bit of fun watching you embarrass yourself. Come on.....quote me saying the twelve are in the body of Christ or out of the body of Christ. I wanna see it. If you can't, everyone will see you run your mouth without any proof, whatsoever. I'm waiting.....

Even if you were right in your interpretation; and even if you were to communicate it clearly; you still have no business turning every thread; regardless of its OP, or what have you, into this hounding of yours once more.

Wow, for how many years having you been hounding others in that way now?

Yours is who; not what, is right.

You are "to be blamed."

Jerry and God's UNtruth have the same problem. Their message is different, but their tactics are the same. Sad.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You just continue to crack me up, Jerry. I "defy" you to find one single time I have ever claimed the twelve were either in or out of the body of Christ. Spend some time....look high and low.

You know that all those in the Body are saved apart from works. So when you said the following about the Jews who lived under the law(including the Twelve) I could never imagine that you thought that they were ever members of the Body of Christ:

I won't argue with scripture, but I'm thinking you're forgetting what comes later in that chapter.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

By quoting that passage you are trying to prove that the Twelve could not be saved apart from works.

And if you do believe that the Twelve are in the Body of Christ then why didn't you say that you believe that when I brought up both 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 12:13?

So I will ask you a simple question about what you believe:

Do you think that all those who are members of the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith apart from the law?​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And what we should do is put faith in what you - a man - says about that passage.

At least I will give my opinion about the meaning of any verse. On the other hand you run and hide from the verses which seem to contradict your ideas.

Unlike you, I follow Paul when he said that he "kept back nothing that was profitable unto you" and "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:20, 27).

 

[glorydaz]

You know that all those in the Body are saved apart from works. So when you said the following about the Jews who lived under the law(including the Twelve) I could never imagine that you thought that they were ever members of the Body of Christ:



By quoting that passage you are trying to prove that the Twelve could not be saved apart from works.

Wow, what would I do without you here to tell me what I'm trying to prove by quoting a verse? :doh:

And if you do believe that the Twelve are in the Body of Christ then why didn't you say that you believe that when I brought up both 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 12:13?

Because I don't know for sure. :chew:

So I will ask you a simple question about what you believe:

Do you think that all those who are members of the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith apart from the law?​

That one I do know. :banana:

YES

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Wow, what would I do without you here to tell me what I'm trying to prove by quoting a verse?

If you were not trying to prove that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works then why did you quote this verse?

I won't argue with scripture, but I'm thinking you're forgetting what comes later in that chapter.

John 5:28-29
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Why did you make this part "bold" if you were not arguing that it took more than faith for the Jews who lived under the law to be saved?

Surely you had a reason for making those words bold so what was that reason?

That one I do know.

YES

Since you admit that all those who are members of the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith apart from the law then you do not think that the Jews who lived under the law were members in the Body.

That is because you think they could not be saved apart from the law.

So when I saw your opinions about these things I could understand that you do not think that the Twelve are in the Body.

 

[glorydaz]

If you were not trying to prove that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works then why did you quote this verse?

So that you would explain your understanding of that verse. It was a, "So what about this...."

Why did you make this part "bold" if you were not arguing that it took more than faith for the Jews who lived under the law to be saved?

Surely you had a reason for making those words bold so what was that reason?

So that I could see what your explanation was going to be. You insisted I give my understanding, but I didn't even know what your point was. I was waiting for you to convince me of something rather than try to "bully" me into answering you.

Since you admit that all those who are members of the Body of Christ are saved by grace through faith apart from the law then you do not think that the Jews who lived under the law were members in the Body.

Well, I think those who go about trying to establish their own righteousness by living under the law are not members of the body. The law is not capable of giving anyone life.

That is because you think they could not be saved apart from the law.

So when I saw your opinions about these things I could understand that you do not think that the Twelve are in the Body.

Maybe if you weren't so quick to tell me what I think, you wouldn't jump to conclusions the way you have here.


As I said before, I don't know about the twelve. I have seen some great points being made on both sides of this issue...thus my interest in these threads.

 

[Danoh]

YES! Well stated and just how I see it, but could never explain the way you have. I take back all those nasty things I said about you, Danoh. :chuckle:

And then I woke up and realized it was just a dream.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[glorydaz]

So that you would explain your understanding of that verse. It was a, "So what about this...."

So that I could see what your explanation was going to be. You insisted I give my understanding, but I didn't even know what your point was. I was waiting for you to convince me of something rather than try to "bully" me into answering you.


Well, I think those who go about trying to establish their own righteousness by living under the law are not members of the body. The law is not capable of giving anyone life.

Maybe if you weren't so quick to tell me what I think, you wouldn't jump to conclusions the way you have here.


As I said before, I don't know about the twelve. I have seen some great points being made on both sides of this issue...thus my interest in these threads.

And then I woke up and realized it was just a dream.

:chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8.

Poor Danoh. He had to go back three years to find a post that clearly shows I was seeking to know more...admitting I was interested in learning more from threads such as this, when I was sick of Jerry....all to find a moment where he could BOAST.

Sadly, Danoh's moment of glory was short-lived. He can never be a decent fellow for long. :rotfl:

 

[Danoh]

Poor Danoh. He had to go back three years to find a post that clearly shows I was seeking to know more...admitting I was interested in learning more from threads such as this, when I was sick of Jerry....all to find a moment where he could BOAST.

Sadly, Danoh's moment of glory was short-lived. He can never be a decent fellow for long. :rotfl:

Glad I made your day :chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8

 

[glorydaz]

Glad I made your day :chuckle:

Rom. 5:6-8

I'm glad you're glad, but you didn't come close to making my day.

 

[Tambora]

Poor Danoh. He had to go back three years to find a post that clearly shows I was seeking to know more...admitting I was interested in learning more from threads such as this, when I was sick of Jerry....all to find a moment where he could BOAST.

Sadly, Danoh's moment of glory was short-lived. He can never be a decent fellow for long. :rotfl:

He adores keeping track of his pats on the back.

 

[glorydaz]

He adores keeping track of his pats on the back.

True Scoop. He'll search high and low to find one.