SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
No answer from IP...
ECT Hebrews- Problem verses for Interplanner
- Thread starter SaulToPaul 2
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LOL....so, that would mean a bunch of body-less spirits have been hanging out with the Lord for the last 2,000 years?
Maybe you should consider "soul-sleep", like STP, heir, and some of the other Darby Followers.
Again, read 1 Thess 4:17, Paul said "alive and remain".
(1 Thess 4:17 KJV) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus said that those who are "alive and remain" (remain alive) when He returned would still die:
(John 21:22-23) Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?”
BTW, John was the only one of the Disciples who did in fact remain alive until Jesus returned in 70AD. John died years later after 70AD, and was then caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord, and join the other believers who had died before him.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Do you realize that everywhere in the NT you find that the return is quite soon, not even a "generation" away? So he referred to it as an event expected quite soon, and by placing it in connection with the turmoil over in Israel (Thess), he meant right in the thick of that.
But the allowed delay--which clearly happened--changes all that. Individually yes, 'we shall be changed.' But the rapture belief happening sometime this decade after it's whole setting has blown over? That's the mistake.
The only thing that remains is the overpowering defeat of all Christ's enemies at the last day before judgement and the NHNE, ie, Rev 20:9. It is obviously different from the judgement on Israel, and it happens the day before the NHNE.
Our comfort is in justification through Christ, no matter how we die or are 'translated' to that bliss of the NHNE. I don't think the NT is trying to make people love martydom, but it must allow for that kind of death to be seen as conquered, Rev 20:4.
Interplanner
Well-known member
re the OP:
I don't see where anyone in the 'room' has gone to read the essay on Hebrews and I Cor 15 on 'the world to come, about which we are speaking.' So the intent of the thread seems to create a non-discussion where a club of snobs who have no memory get together to practice their insulting skills. anyone interested?
I don't see where anyone in the 'room' has gone to read the essay on Hebrews and I Cor 15 on 'the world to come, about which we are speaking.' So the intent of the thread seems to create a non-discussion where a club of snobs who have no memory get together to practice their insulting skills. anyone interested?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
No answer from IP...
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
All of this is made up.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Are all things under Christ's feet, at this moment, IP?
All that, and they inherit the earth too.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
So, IP dodged the first one. Here is another:
Hebrews 3
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Why weren't the Hebrews yet resting, and why were they not yet partakers of Christ?
Hebrews 3
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Why weren't the Hebrews yet resting, and why were they not yet partakers of Christ?
You've read your hybrid into that - he is talking to Israelites who have not yet believed - he is talking to them about their promise.
Same as in Moses' day - though Israelites in Covenant with God by Physical Circumcision, they had to add to that their Circumcision of their heart.
See the end of Romans 3 (when you get IT right) and also, Hebrews 3.
Israel has three salvations or deliverances - Individual forgiveness (The Twelve and their converts - the salvation Shugart is always rightly talking about); National forgiveness (the Nation); and their Nation's Political deliverance, or deliverance from their enemies.
Try Mid-Acts, STP :chuckle:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
As they did in Moses day, though under the Covenant.
To refuse to believe Jesus was their Christ was to depart from the living God they claimed to believe in - see John 5 and John 8.
The "we have Abraham as our father..."
Not that you will restudy that.
:chuckle: :doh:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
These Hebrews had to believe that Jesus is the Christ to be a part of this new covenant, and they could also fall away. They had to persevere to be made a partaker of him, and enter the rest. You have not thoroughly applied the Danohianic Principle on this particular topic.
Your eagerness to meet your daily quota of opposing me has led you to rush into these last few posts without thinking it through.
lol - God forbid anyone oppose you - tell ya what - quit posting your hybrid errors and I won't have to oppose them :chuckle:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
You disagree with me (and scripture) that the Hebrews had to endure to be made partakers of Christ, and enter rest? Why? Because you despise an imaginary club?
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Danoh's views are pretty close to mine, maybe 95% or more. He'd rather oppose me than others he
has 50% in common with, and others who could benefit even more from what he does know. :idunno:
has 50% in common with, and others who could benefit even more from what he does know. :idunno:
lol
First of all, I do not dispise said club.
Second, conflict with said club is the issue of their double-standard.
Third, that is a different issue than my calling you on what I perceive as your errors.
Fourth, you've just proven once more, you read one thing into another.
Fifth, I think highly of you.
Sixth, Romans 5:8.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
You disagree with me (and scripture) that the Hebrews had to endure to be made partakers of Christ, and enter rest?
That's the topic.
Am not opposing you, rather; your misunderstandings.
Just as I do theirs.
I realize that is not politically expedient.
But that is you and your's need; not mine.
Again, I have nothing against you.
Heck, if I can every so often throw the likes of northwye, IP, Tel, et al, a bone...oh, never mind :chuckle: