Have you learned the shema?

[Ask Mr. Religion]

My commentary from page 11 to present stands

Page numbers depend upon the member's settings of the number of posts to display per page. Hence, use an actual link to your post such that the reader can actually find it easily. Stating page numbers is useless.

AMR

 

[Jacob]

My commentary from page 11 to present stands, to which you have only responded to by a scripture quote and 2 Nos which is hardly befitting a dialogue. It matters not if I'm Jewish or Christian since your responsibility to engage in dialogue will be in responding to the contents of my posts....addressing the points being shared. That remains to be done.

The Bible is a collection of writings tailor made by its writers for their own purpose or agenda, it's books are more or less valuable according to their content.

As I've shared already, I see the Shema as a profession of the unitary nature of Deity, the oneness of 'God'....the singular absolute reality of The Creator. This salutation is a universal One, since all creation springs from with the Infinite One....since nothing can exist outside of IT. - this naturally includes the kingdom and laws of the One Creator expressed in the adjuncts of the prayer.

Your ideas, your thoughts even, are wrong.

You are engaged in idolatry.

 

[patrick jane]

Your ideas, your thoughts even, are wrong.

You are engaged in idolatry.

Why do you say engaged? Why do you say idolatry?

 

[Jacob]

Why do you say engaged? Why do you say idolatry?

That is a good question.

It is just idolatry.

 

[freelight]

Engaging in an actual discussion.................

Engaging in an actual discussion.................

Page numbers depend upon the member's settings of the number of posts to display per page. Hence, use an actual link to your post such that the reader can actually find it easily. Stating page numbers is useless.

AMR

Thanks for your concern AMR,....and what you shared probably does have a factor in determining page position, - I was on my kindle at the time, (I'm now at home on my desktop)and I suppose I'm at the default setting since I've never changed it - in any case,...if all are on the same default position,...they can use that intro-point where my first post was made. - Jacob knows well what posts I'm referring to. I usually do link my previous posts (I'm charitable as it is in that regard), but a poster can do a little leg work himself, without everything being handed to him. He's not engaging in 'dialogue' but more like a sniper-micro-sized diatribe style. You cant dialogue much with a person who answers an extensive commentary with "No". - I mean who does that? its absurd. Anyone following this discussion can make their own judgment, if interested. My view-points, article links, song-videos on the Shema have been shared,....since that's the subject here.

N-joy

 

[freelight]

I've shared my views.........

I've shared my views.........

Your ideas, your thoughts even, are wrong.

You are engaged in idolatry.

Hi Jacob,...my former posts hold here , here & elsewhere,........you have yet to address what points or observations in my commentary are 'wrong' or 'idolatrous'. Communicating such details is usually essential in engaging a discussion. A 'dialogue' takes 2 persons engaging, but each must do their part. Have some response-ability.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Jacob knows well what posts I'm referring to. I usually do link my previous posts (I'm charitable as it is in that regard), but a poster can do a little leg work himself, without everything being handed to him. He's not engaging in 'dialogue' but more like a sniper-micro-sized diatribe style. You cant dialogue much with a person who answers an extensive commentary with "No". - I mean who does that? its absurd.

Jacob thinks his coyness fosters discussion. Best to ignore odd-duck HRM types:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Your-Savior&p=4850433&viewfull=1#post4850433



AMR

 

[TweetyBird]

Jacob thinks his coyness fosters discussion. Best to ignore odd-duck HRM types:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Your-Savior&p=4850433&viewfull=1#post4850433



AMR

The article made a really good point that I had not noticed before - that Paul BECAME a Jew when he was with the Jews, and BECAME under the Law. This definitely shows that Paul was not either teaching the Law of Moses or keeping it, except as an advantage in dealing with the Jews. Very interesting .... and ties with Phil 3 where Paul states that His past ethnicity, culture, and religion were dung to him, in order that He could apprehend Christ. I really love that as a former HR.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

The article made a really good point that I had not noticed before - that Paul BECAME a Jew when he was with the Jews, and BECAME under the Law. This definitely shows that Paul was not either teaching the Law of Moses or keeping it, except as an advantage in dealing with the Jews. Very interesting .... and ties with Phil 3 where Paul states that His past ethnicity, culture, and religion were dung to him, in order that He could apprehend Christ. I really love that as a former HR.

Indeed, such is the foolishness of the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM).

"This is the particular hideousness of the HRM: the Old Testament is more important than Jesus Christ and does not point to Jesus Christ despite John 5:45-47 and Luke 24:13-49.

Jesus (they will always call Him Yeshua regardless of what the entire GREEK New Testament calls Him, because somehow Hebrew is more sacred than Greek. It was really rather stupid of the New Testament authors to call Him “Iesous” of which “Jesus” is simply a transcription into English. It’s a good thing that the HRM folk are smarter than God at this point) always recedes into the background in the HRM.

Just ask a HRM person why there are no sacrifices anymore. They will invariably answer that there is no temple. That’s their reason. Not that Jesus Christ was the once-for-all sacrifice that ends all other sacrifices (as the book of Hebrews makes abundantly clear all the way through the book). No, it’s because there is no temple. So why don’t they go build one and finish their denial of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice for sins by starting up the sacrifices again, which Hebrews tells us never took away the guilt of sin anyway? The fact of the matter is that God had the Temple destroyed precisely because Jesus had ended the sacrificial system of the law by being the one perfect sacrifice to which all the OT sacrifices always pointed."
​

All of which, of course, explains Jacob's Shema, etc., nonsense.

AMR

 

[TweetyBird]

Indeed, such is the foolishness of the Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM).

"This is the particular hideousness of the HRM: the Old Testament is more important than Jesus Christ and does not point to Jesus Christ despite John 5:45-47 and Luke 24:13-49.

Jesus (they will always call Him Yeshua regardless of what the entire GREEK New Testament calls Him, because somehow Hebrew is more sacred than Greek. It was really rather stupid of the New Testament authors to call Him “Iesous” of which “Jesus” is simply a transcription into English. It’s a good thing that the HRM folk are smarter than God at this point) always recedes into the background in the HRM.

Just ask a HRM person why there are no sacrifices anymore. They will invariably answer that there is no temple. That’s their reason. Not that Jesus Christ was the once-for-all sacrifice that ends all other sacrifices (as the book of Hebrews makes abundantly clear all the way through the book). No, it’s because there is no temple. So why don’t they go build one and finish their denial of Christ’s ultimate sacrifice for sins by starting up the sacrifices again, which Hebrews tells us never took away the guilt of sin anyway? The fact of the matter is that God had the Temple destroyed precisely because Jesus had ended the sacrificial system of the law by being the one perfect sacrifice to which all the OT sacrifices always pointed."
​

All of which, of course, explains Jacob's Shema, etc., nonsense.

AMR

Yes, I agree with you 100%. It is an egregious movement that denies the new covenant of the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Just a note, most of HRM believes that when Jesus returns, during the Mil, the sacrificial system will be reestablished as a memorial, with Jesus Himself as High Priest over these animal sacrifices. Torah will be taught to all, and indeed some believe He will butcher them with His own hands, getting their blood on His Holy Righteous Glorious Self.

It makes one wonder when Isaiah spoke of the wolf will dwell with the lamb and the leopard lying down with the kid in peace, that in the Mil, which is supposed to be peace on earth, the sacrificial animals will be fleeing for their lives from mankind ...

 

[Jacob]

Hi Jacob,...my former posts hold here , here & elsewhere,........you have yet to address what points or observations in my commentary are 'wrong' or 'idolatrous'. Communicating such details is usually essential in engaging a discussion. A 'dialogue' takes 2 persons engaging, but each must do their part. Have some response-ability.

Have you repented of your sins and turned to God for salvation?

 

[TweetyBird]

Have you repented of your sins and turned to God for salvation?

One turns to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. When you spend all your time in "Torah", Jesus becomes just an after thought.

 

[Jacob]

One turns to the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. When you spend all your time in "Torah", Jesus becomes just an after thought.

No.

 

[TweetyBird]

No.

Your posts show differently. You concentrate on Torah. We are supposed to lift up Jesus, not Torah.

 

[Jacob]

Your posts show differently. You concentrate on Torah. We are supposed to lift up Jesus, not Torah.

Jesus taught Torah. He observed and taught Torah.

 

[freelight]

back to the Shema........

back to the Shema........

Have you repented of your sins and turned to God for salvation?

The subject is the Shema - I offered some of my insights and understanding on the verses, did you have anything to add to that except you believing what I shared was 'wrong' and 'idolatrous'? Which parts,....what insights did you NOT agree with? What does the Shema mean to you? Is there any inner esoteric meaning to it? As you have learned to pray it, what value or import does it have for you or anyone and why? Could you share on that, and how you feel others learning the Shema would profit?

So Jesus acknowledged the Shema,....awesome. Feel free to expound more of the subject....or has it been exhausted?

I'd attend to that before questioning anyone's salvation.

 

[meshak]

freelight,

You are not Jewish. And you are not Christian. Do you accept the Torah or the Bible?

You started sound like typical bully Christians of this forum.

 

[marhig]

The Hebrew Scriptures told a lot about the Messiah.

According to OT prophecies the Messiah’s arrival would usher in the end of sin, the end of suffering, peace and tranquility, one creed and one religion, one kingdom and one king, the resurrection of the dead, the abolishment of idolatry and false prophets, the gathering of the ten tribes of Israel, the building of the future temple, etc. etc. etc.

But Jesus didn’t bring about any of these world changes.
So is Jesus a false Messiah? A false Christ?

Christians say that Jesus will perform all the Messianic world changes when he comes a second time.

But how can we have confidence that Jesus will perform with the second coming? What’s his performance record so far?

Has Jesus fulfilled any of the Messianic promises with his First Coming?
Did Jesus provide us with any prophecies for the benefit of mankind that he has fulfilled?

If you can’t positively answer these questions with substantial accomplishments that we can all see for ourselves, then perhaps you may have to reexamine your faith.

The first coming was natural, the second spiritual. Jesus has fulfilled those prophecies spiritually in the hearts of his people and he's gathering them together and he's brought them peace, turning them from sin, ending the hold that Satan had over them bringing them tranquility, one creed, one religion, one kingdom and one king, the resurrection of the dead, the end of idolatry and false prophets and he is building his church and the temple is rebuilt but mot naturally because Jesus' kingdom is not of this world the temple is built within, it is made not by the hand of man but by the hand of the living God.

He is creating a new Jerusalem and those who follow him aren't of a certain denomination, but they are they who worship God in spirit and in truth, and deny their flesh and do his will all those who truly follow Jesus, put God first before their flesh and they love God with all their hearts and minds and their neighbours as themselves. These are the true church and Gods true people, they are those who are the sheep and hear the voice of the Messiah he who bore witness to the truth and brought us a new and living way. And he has now returned, he returned in that generation, in his apostles, deciples and in all his people. He is raised in their hearts and they are raised from death to life with him, and they have come out of darkness and they walk in the light .

 

[TweetyBird]

Jesus taught Torah. He observed and taught Torah.

Jesus did not teach the Torah. He taught a new law and then by example, lived it. The New Covenant is not about Torah. The New Covenant is about Jesus.

 

[TweetyBird]

You started sound like typical bully Christians of this forum.

He's not Jewish, either. He convinced himself that he is a Jew.