TweetyBird
New member
Because they did not believe He was going to rise again.
Have you learned the shema?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Because they did not believe He was going to rise again.
That is a big assertion not backed up by the facts.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth: with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Did Jesus do this? NO!
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Has Jesus made this happen? NO!
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Has Jesus gathered the Twelve tribes of Israel? NO!
And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.
Is Jesus sitting on the throne in the tabernacle of David? NO!
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely:
Is Jesus a King executing justice in the earth? Are Judah and Israel dwelling in safety? NO!
I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour.
Has iniquity been removed? Is every man a neighbor? NO!
Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Did Jesus build the Temple and sit upon his throne? NO!
But the humble will inherit the land
And will delight themselves in abundant prosperity.
For the arms of the wicked will be broken,
But the Lord sustains the righteous.
The Lord knows the days of the blameless,
And their inheritance will be forever.
They will not be ashamed in the time of evil,
And in the days of famine they will have abundance.
But the wicked will perish;
And the enemies of the Lord will be like the glory of the pastures,
They vanish—like smoke they vanish away.
Has this happened? NO!
“Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, My people; and I will bring you into the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves and caused you to come up out of your graves, My people. I will put My Spirit within you and you will come to life, and I will place you on your own land. Then you will know that I, the Lord, have spoken and done it,” declares the Lord.’”
Has this happened? NO!
And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
Has this happened? NO!
They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Has this happened? NO!
In instances in the Bible where “spiritual children “ are mentioned the Hebrew word “behn” Strongs # 1121 is used in contrast to the word “zehrag” which clearly refers to offspring of a sexual union.
For Example..
Deuteronomy 14:1 King James Version (KJV)
14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
TweetyBird
New member
The Scriptures do not say Jesus is bringing world peace.
Matthew 10:34
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Of course Jesus' disciples knew he would rise again because he told them he would.
Matthew 16:20-21King James Version (KJV)
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
The twelve DID NOT KNOW -
Luke 18:31-32 KJV - Luke 18:33-34 KJV -
Luke 24:9-10, 11 KJV - Mark 16:11 KJV -
Isaiah 2:4 King James Version (KJV)
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
If Messianic prophecy of the Hebrew Scriptures say that the Messiah will bring World Peace, but Jesus says he will not bring Peace but will bring a sword....what can we conclude?
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
If Messianic prophecy of the Hebrew Scriptures say that the Messiah will bring World Peace, but Jesus says he will not bring Peace but will bring a sword....what can we conclude?
Quote Originally Posted by Lilstu View Post
Of course Jesus' disciples knew he would rise again because he told them he would.
Matthew 16:20-21King James Version (KJV)
Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
It would appear that we have scriptures that conflict. How is this possible?
TweetyBird
New member
Yes, He did. It is Finished.
He did that on the cross. Col 1.
Jesus is the Holy Mountain. All who come to Him are full of the knowledge of Him.
Jesus is the Ensign for the nations. All who are outcast and come to Him are gathered in Him. Caiaphas spoke this in John 11.
John 11
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Yes, the remnant as prophesied, continues to be gathered until the end of this age.
Jesus is on that Throne now, ruling, forevermore without end.
Yes, He is reigning over all - the wicked and the righteous. The wicked are being allowed to do their evil works, but all is subject to Him. Just because we cannot see it with out eyes does not mean it has not been accomplished. Those of Judah and Israel that are in Christ, dwell in Him forever, regardless of what happens to the body on planet earth.
Jesus died for all iniquities, once and for all. All those in Christ are the Lord of Hosts and are joined together with Him in His body of Believers.
Jesus is the Temple. He explained this in John 2. He is Peace, the Price of Peace. He is the New Jerusalem, the City of Peace.
John 2
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Revelation shows us that Jesus is on the throne ruling now and forevermore.
In Christ we have all the spiritual blessings of the Lord. Our inheritance is Jesus Himself, to live with Him for all eternity.
All are made alive in Him. His Spirit indwells in those who believe in Him having been born again of Spirit [Jesus] and Water [Jesus].
All who come to Jesus will not be turned away. He is the mountain of the Lord, The King of David on the throne forever, teaching us through His Spirit, His word having gone forth through the writers of His NT Scriptures - who recorded His words for us - per John [chapter 17, 20, 21].
Jesus said that is has.
John 6
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
What part of Jesus died on the cross?
The God part didn't die because God is immortal.
1Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Jesus' soul didn't die because humans have immortal souls according to traditional Christianity.
Part of Jesus was in paradise with the thief on the adjacent cross so this part wasn't dead in the tomb.
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
His Spirit wasn't dead because it went and preached to spirits in prison. [I didn't know that God ran a prison]
1Peter 3:18-19
18For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison,
So what died?
Jesus was so busy after the cross, entertaining the thief in paradise, preaching in prison, that it hardly seems like he was dead at all.
TweetyBird
New member
The offspring of Christ are those who belong to Him by belief in Him as the Messiah, the Son of God.
Acts 17:28
for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. 29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Luke 20
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 but they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Romans 8
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17
and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Galatians 3:26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
What did Jesus ever do, that we can see, to improve the lives of mankind?
As a Prophet, what prophecies did Jesus ever make that have been fulfilled?
Jesus was a charismatic orator....he said some great sayings.....but what did he ever do?
We have nothing concrete that we can see. Did Jesus die for your sins? How can you tell if he did or not? How can you tell if you still have sins or not?
.WHAT DID HE DO?
TweetyBird
New member
His body.
Correct. He committed His Spirit to the Father. Jesus is the Spirit of God who took on a human form.
That is not a traditional Christianity belief. Some fringe religions may, but it's not a Christian teaching.
The Spirit of Christ, like our spirits do not die. Our bodies die. Our spirits return to God.
Very picturesque language being written there. It is not literal of course.
His body died, just like ours does. They laid Him in the tomb, just like we are laid in a grave. His Spirit was with God, just as our spirits are with God when we die. The difference is, that because Jesus is God, He could and did raise Himself from the dead. It is mystery that no man can explain. Sometimes, as much as we want to get it all worked out with our human minds, we cannot and it was never intended for us to do so. That is where faith comes in. Belief that what God did is the truth.
TweetyBird
New member
By being in Christ, as one of His, our lives are improved - and I don't mean physically or materially - although God does bless people and give them blessings to be enjoyed in this realm. His spiritual blessings will never fade or grow old or tarnish - they are infinite and eternal.
Belief in Christ is by faith. It is not by seeing and believing, but believing by faith in Him as Truth.
God is our Father. So of course we true believers are children of God. We are adopted children of God but not physical children from a sexual union.
But Isaiah 53 speaks of the SERVANT OF GOD having children...children of a SEXUAL UNION.
Jesus is not the SERVANT OF GOD of Isaiah 53 because Jesus never married and never had children of a SEXUAL UNION.
I do not know why you say this.
TweetyBird
New member
They did not believe Him and did not understand what He meant. In other words, their eyes were closed to the truth until He rose from the dead.
TweetyBird
New member
Isaiah 53 is not referring to physical children. Israel was called the children of God, but He did not give birth to them did He?
Sure I know you feel better knowing about Jesus and his promises of a better life after you die.
I feel better also.
But the truth is that Jesus' promises are unfulfilled at this time.
There is nothing Jesus DID that we can see.
But the Messiah of the Hebrew Scripture promises a better world that we can see. These promises are unfulfilled at present.
Most assuredly Isaiah 53 is about children of a sexual union.
Isaiah 53:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
“he shall see his seed”
Seed.. Strong’s #2233 Zehrag in Hebrew
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon, gives agricultural definitions for the Hebrew word for “seed” and the definition, semen virile, offspring.
In the Septuagint Greek translation “seed” is translated with the Greek word “sperma” which indicates a clear meaning for seed in this verse.
Since Jesus never married according to Christian Tradition, this “seed” cannot apply to Jesus.