ECT Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

[ZacharyB]

World-famous evangelist/missionary T. L. Osborne found it
necessary to research the NT word “believe”, and he came to
the conclusion that it means “to believe, trust in, and obey”.
To reconcile the NT word “believe” with the rest of the NT,
it is ridiculous to think that it does not include obedience.
(Not only that, but it must mean until the end of one’s life!)

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

You obviously have NO idea what repentance is all about.

OIC... :doh:

So... God saved us from our debt incurred by condemnation of the law... (ministry of death)... by paying our wages of "missing the mark" of the law... (Jesus Christ)... so we could then go on and be held... again... to the Law?

Do tell... :think:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

After I give my son the gift of a car ...
I take it back, IF he misuses it (dangerously or whatever).

Then it really wasn't a gift.. but a "loan". Loans must be paid back and can be demanded back.

So actually... salvation is a "loan"?

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

World-famous evangelist/missionary T. L. Osborne found it
necessary to research the NT word “believe”, and he came to
the conclusion that it means “to believe, trust in, and obey”.
To reconcile the NT word “believe” with the rest of the NT,
it is ridiculous to think that it does not include obedience.
(Not only that, but it must mean until the end of one’s life!)

Heaven famous ... Jesus Christ said ... John 6:63 and John 6:29 ...

That's pretty simple and clear.

Is there anything else you would like to "redefine" for Jesus? :idunno:

Again... do you "sin no more"?

Not as in... "oops... this time I really mean I'm sorry God... and won't screw up again...."...

But are you sinnless in the flesh yet and what happens if you die before you are? Does God reward your "effort"? :think:

Romans 4:4

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

No God doesn't answer to God, Jesus Christ answers to his God, the Son answers to the father and is under subjection to him and the father is his God and he anointed Jesus and exalted him, and the head of Christ is God. Jesus did his fathers will and not his own will, and the father sent him, he didn't send himself but he willingly came to bare witness to the truth and save as many as would believe on him and believe in the gospel and truly repent.

Jesus clearly says in revelation, "to him that overcomes," so yes I believe that we are to overcome, we are to be willing to lay down our lives for others, and live by the will of God and through faith and by God's grace by the power of the Spirit, we can overcome the world and flesh through Christ Jesus.

And this is Jesus, praying to the father, saying that the father is the only true God, and that life eternal is to know the father, the only true God. and that he sent Christ Jesus, so why shouldn't I believe him?

John 17:3 kjv

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1. You deny Jesus is God and thus that God came in the flesh.

2. You are dishonest and talk out of all sides of your mouth

3. If you don't know Jesus is God... I ..a simple, forgiven sinner... have no hope of reaching your heart and the error of your words.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Since creation, God has always insisted on man’s co-operation.
Jesus will make you holy (i.e. He will fully sanctify you),
but only IF you co-operate with the precious Holy Spirit
via your God-given free-will.

You abuse freewill and it's meaning. I do believe that people like you are why [MENTION=6696]Lon[/MENTION] 's understanding is valuable to some. You have no concept of what "surrender" really means.

You are still in the drivers seat. :wink:

You aren't asking for salvation... you are asking God to help you save yourself! :doh:

 

[Tambora]

Then it really wasn't a gift.. but a "loan". Loans must be paid back and can be demanded back.

So actually... salvation is a "loan"?

Right.
If you have to earn a gift, it is not a gift of grace (which is unmerited).
If you have to work for it or to keep it, then it is dependent on works, not grace.

What Zachary B is describing is a debt owned for the gift.
That's not grace.

 

[Tambora]

You aren't asking for salvation... you are asking God to help you save yourself! :doh:

Bingo.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

in some ways. mainstream churches may play into social status, I have went past that to being saved in Christ,

I belive OSAS is true but incompatible with OV, which is why I am MAD, but not really OV

As you know... I have an Open Theological leaning.., yet I still believe in OSAS... but I fully comprehend your point and respect it tremendously. I'm ultimately thankful for the time you take to challenge each of us from time to time... and also perpetually exalt Jesus Christ... our Lord, God and Savior.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Right.
If you have to earn a gift, it is not a gift of grace (which is unmerited).
If you have to work for it or to keep it, then it is dependent on works, not grace.

What Zachary B is describing is a debt owned for the gift.
That's not grace.

I do believe that your statement could easily be "thread ended" and shutdown. :thumb:

Unfortunately... as we see... time and time again... the flesh exalters will stop at nothing to demand recognition of their "achievements".

Prediction... the sharper our replies get to Zachary and Marhig... the more outrageously deceptive their responses wil become.

 

[Tambora]

I do believe that your statement could easily be "thread ended" and shutdown. :thumb:

Unfortunately... as we see... time and time again... the flesh exalters will stop at nothing to demand recognition of their "achievements".

Prediction... the sharper our replies get to Zachary and Marhig... the more outrageously deceptive their responses wil become.

Perhaps he is not aware of ....


Romans 5: KJV


(6) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.




(8) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.



For the ungodly, sinners.
Not "For those that clean up their act first".

He continues ....



(18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Not by the righteousness and obedience of any other than the Lord Jesus Christ alone.

 

[marhig]

1. You deny Jesus is God and thus that God came in the flesh.

2. You are dishonest and talk out of all sides of your mouth

3. If you don't know Jesus is God... I ..a simple, forgiven sinner... have no hope of reaching your heart and the error of your words.

We don't do anything EE, it's God in us that does the works and it's his word that reaches the hearts of others not us.

And Jesus said that the father is his God and I believe him, why shouldn't I? Show me where it says in the bible that I have to believe that Jesus is God? Because as far as I have read I have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and I do! I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and that he is risen, now according to my kjv bible that's what I am to believe!

And it says in the bible that I'm to believe that Christ is come in flesh and I do, why can't you see that God was in Christ Jesus, it says in the bible that God was in him reconciling the world unto himself, not that Jesus is God, but God was in him, it also says that God was in his fullnes in Christ Jesus bodily, and that's because Jesus never saw after the seeing of his eyes, he didn't hear after the hearing of his ears and his voice was not heard in the streets. He saw, heard and spoke God and only him, there was nothing of this world in him, he was full of the Holy Spirit so when we see Jesus we see the father and he glorifies him, the Father who is also the God, and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to Jesus and his apostles

So, before you accuse me of having whatever kind of mouth you have judged me of having, show me where it says, in the bible that I have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved? If it's not in the bible, then don't preach to me that I must believe it. I believe what is the truth, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that the father is his God and father, just as it says in the bible.

So seeing as you are saying that I have false beliefs, and that I error in my words, show me where it says in the bible that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved? Just written like that, Chapter and verse Thanks

 

[glorydaz]

We don't do anything EE, it's God in us that does the works and it's his word that reaches the hearts of others not us.

Ah, I see you have adjusted your talking points. You've gone from God "helping us" to our doing nothing. This doesn't project a heart change, but a mask alteration. Actors upon the stage......

 

[patrick jane]

We don't do anything EE, it's God in us that does the works and it's his word that reaches the hearts of others not us.

And Jesus said that the father is his God and I believe him, why shouldn't I? Show me where it says in the bible that I have to believe that Jesus is God? Because as far as I have read I have to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and I do! I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, and that he is risen, now according to my kjv bible that's what I am to believe!

And it says in the bible that I'm to believe that Christ is come in flesh and I do, why can't you see that God was in Christ Jesus, it says in the bible that God was in him reconciling the world unto himself, not that Jesus is God, but God was in him, it also says that God was in his fullnes in Christ Jesus bodily, and that's because Jesus never saw after the seeing of his eyes, he didn't hear after the hearing of his ears and his voice was not heard in the streets. He saw, heard and spoke God and only him, there was nothing of this world in him, he was full of the Holy Spirit so when we see Jesus we see the father and he glorifies him, the Father who is also the God, and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, according to Jesus and his apostles

So, before you accuse me of having whatever kind of mouth you have judged me of having, show me where it says, in the bible that I have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved? If it's not in the bible, then don't preach to me that I must believe it. I believe what is the truth, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God and that the father is his God and father, just as it says in the bible.

So seeing as you are saying that I have false beliefs, and that I error in my words, show me where it says in the bible that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved? Just written like that, Chapter and verse Thanks

[h=1]John 14:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Father Revealed[/h][FONT=&quot]7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?[/FONT]

 

[marhig]

Ah, I see you have adjusted your talking points. You've gone from God "helping us" to our doing nothing. This doesn't project a heart change, but a mask alteration. Actors upon the stage......

I'm talking about the word of God, we can't reach the hearts of others, we are flesh, it's Gods word that reaches the hearts. Because only God knows the heart and he gives us what to say when it's needed. So it's not EE that reaches anyone, it's God that reaches the heart of others through those born of him.

I keep saying to you over and over, we are to do works, but not our own works, those works glorify our flesh. The works that those born of God do, are the works of God, the works that he does within our hearts and we live by them and live them out and glorify him and Christ Jesus.

God is helping me daily overcome this world, without God and Christ, I'd still be dead in my sins.

 

[marhig]

[h=1]John 14:7-9New King James Version (NKJV)[/h][h=3]The Father Revealed[/h][FONT=&quot]7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?[/FONT]

Why can't you see that that father is in Jesus, he was in Jesus in his fullness because Jesus didn't live by his will but by the will of the father. Jesus even said that the words he speaks are not his own, but they are his father's words. So when we hear Jesus, we hear the father, because he only speaks what the father gives him to speak.

And there's this

John 17

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Then further down the chapter

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Also, can you show me where it says in the bible that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved?

 

[patrick jane]

Why can't you see that that father is in Jesus, he was in Jesus in his fullness because Jesus didn't live by his will but by the will of the father. Jesus even said that the words he speaks are not his own, but they are his father's words. So when we hear Jesus, we hear the father, because he only speaks what the father gives him to speak.

And there's this

John 17

John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Then further down the chapter

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


Also, can you show me where it says in the bible that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved?

No. That's what I just said to keypurr in the Jesus Is God thread. I don't think God expects us to completely understand the Trinity, and many people just don't get it.

 

[marhig]

No. That's what I just said to keypurr in the Jesus Is God thread. I don't think God expects us to completely understand the Trinity, and many people just don't get it.

Patrick I believe in God and Christ, and I love them from the depths of my heart, and I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And that's what I'm told to believe in the bible. I have never seen it written that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. So why do many of you tell me that I must believe this or else I won't be saved? It doesn't say that anywhere in the bible, if it does then please show me where it is?

 

[patrick jane]

Patrick I believe in God and Christ, and I love them from the depths of my heart, and I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And that's what I'm told to believe in the bible. I have never seen it written that I must believe that Jesus is God to be saved. So why do many of you tell me that I must believe this or else I won't be saved? It doesn't say that anywhere in the bible, if it does then please show me where it is?

I just said "No" - the Bible doesn't say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved. Some say this scripture says so - John 8:24 KJV -

 

[marhig]

I just said "No" - the Bible doesn't say that you have to believe that Jesus is God to be saved.

Ok, thank you for answering me.

According to the bible, it's those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God that will be saved, and those who live by the will of God, are those who enter into the kingdom of heaven. And God will be the judge of all of us.