Were might be a better word but this argument with you is a waste of my time anyway
ECT Grace is unconditional but not universal
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They were fulfilled at Pentecost and sealed by the Holy Spirit. Previous to that, they were loyal, they had faith and they loved Christ.
Eagles Wings
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We know from John 20:21-23, that Jesus gave them the Holy Spirit.
Your inability to articulate your thoughts into a cohesive sentence is extremely limited.
Do you want to rephrase what you just said?
Might you want to rephrase this sentence as well?
Eagles Wings
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I would tend to agree with this. I don't think we can definitively know from Scripture exactly when an individual apostle was given saving faith.
John 20:22 - is an action where Jesus breathed on the apostles and gave them His Holy Spirit, even if only a taste of His Spirit, for that particular moment.
Cross Reference
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What is wrong with believing that it was the very first indwelling, as in being born again, of the Holy Spirit experienced by anyone, salvation having already happened?
Thanks. I agree with you, as well my friend.
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Obviously then you don't believe the shed blood of Jesus Christ mounted to anything but to bring on salvation at Pentecost? Thay all had to wait another 50 days.
Try and remain focused. The discussion is based on, "When were the Disciples saved?" You just changed the subject.
Cross Reference
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Not in the least! What was needed for salvation? Why not not admit, you are confused about it?
When they were saved was the question. The "when" happened before the birth of God's elects or the saved one. Everyone bickers about the past and the future which doesn't exist in the present. No one seems interested in what the holy spirit does in real time. The living God doesn't make sense to the carnal TOL'ers so wrapped up in themselves while preaching pure boasting to pride themselves with manual free will making them gods.
Eagles Wings
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Agreed, when we are talking doctrine of salvation. In the case of CR's question, we also must say that Scripture is not clear as to when they received saving faith, in real time. I am willing to be corrected on this though.
In Acts chapter 2 we see Peter putting forth an indictment against the Jews for killing their Messiah. They asked Peter, "What shall we do?" Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38) Remember, Peter was speaking to The House of Israel ONLY at this time. For it was they who had Christ, their Messiah put to death.
Eagles Wings
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I'd need a re-wording of this question.
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Why not consider receiving something "special" of something everyone gets automatically at birth, isn't necessary?
Pure Calvinist false doctrine. You trust in "Another Gospel" which Paul warns about. Galations 1:8-9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
King James Version (KJV)
Eagles Wings
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It's probably me, however, I don't understand the question.
What does this mean??
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