God
- Thread starter blackSand
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Arial
Active member
No. Romans 10:14,17 14 How then sall they call on Him in whom they have not beleiived? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 17So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
beloved57
Well-known member
So I see you dont believe that Christs death alone reconciled them He died for to God. But thats what scripture declares Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Arial
Active member
Christ's death did alone reconcile the believer to God. We were enemies of God until we came to faith (trust) in Christ alone to save us. We cannot believe this until we hear it---the gospel. It is believing the gospel, the person and work of Jesus that joins a person to Him. By grace you have been saved through faith and that is a gift of God. We cannot believe something we have never heard of.
beloved57
Well-known member
arial
Yes indeed, but before they became a believer and while being enemies/unbeliever. Read Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
One is not a believer while being an enemy.
Yes indeed, but before they became a believer and while being enemies/unbeliever. Read Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
One is not a believer while being an enemy.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
Arial
Active member
A more precise way to say that would be an enemy is not a believer.
For clarification on what is meant in Rom 5:10 see Eph 2:1-10 This is stating the condition of everyone prior to union with Christ through faith. In verse 4 and 5 we see that is God who makes us alive with Christ. And then in verse 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith---and this is not from ourselves, it is the gift of God ...When this happens when we hear the gospel, we believe it.
beloved57
Well-known member
You are attempting to explain away truth. Rom 5:10 clearly states that they were reconciled to God by Christs death while being enemies.
Arial
Active member
I am attempting to clarify something that you are misunderstanding. You present yourself as Calvinist and everything I have said has come from the proper designation of that theology---Reformed theology. So I do not understand why you are having such a problem with what I point out, but I am not going to belabor the point, but for this one more thing. Everyone before they hear the gospel and believe it is an enemy of God through sin. Jesus did not come to save the perfectly righteous---there are none. He came to rescue those who need rescued. And that is what He did with His life, death, resurrection and ascension.
Arial
Active member
What is that vital truth that you say I am attempting to explain away? And don't simply quote the same scripture again. Put some bones and meat on it. I am not denying that Jesus saved those He saves while we were still enemies of God. I explained what that means. What do you think it means?
Arial
Active member
There is nothing to keep up with. You keep referring to part of a single scripture. You don't even actually deal with what I have said and I guess you aren't going to so this has gone nowhere and ends here.
beloved57
Well-known member
Then this conversation is over.
>>>Didn’t He said too many times: repent and come back to me and I will forgive you and remember not your sin again???
BTW, did He ever said : his death is the only way to salvation??
Did He ever said: the death of any human is the way to salvation??
Did He ever said the death of any animal is the way to salvation??
>>>your way or the highway. Thank you brother.
Because God isn't the fairy tale magician you seem to think He is.
The simplest answer to your question is this...
Justice
B57 thinks you're right! According to him and those who believe the irrational nonsense they believe, they agree with you that God could have done ANYTHING AT ALL but chose, for no reason at all other than that it pleased Him to do so, to have His Son murdered as payment for the sins of the elect. He, according to them, didn't have to do it that way. They believe that He could just as easily spoken a word and rewound time and started over or He could have simply decided to ignore sin entirely. For God, they say, anything goes! Anything He does is just, right and good. Not because those actions meet any actual definition of those terms but simply and only because God did it.
In short, they believe that God is arbitrary and thus grant your premise from the start. If you have this debate with a Calvinist, Catholic or most any other Christian who buys into Augustinian stupidity, you should win every time. Of course that would require you to actually engage in the debate, which, judging by this thread, doesn't really seem to happen much.
Clete
>>>justice??
God already told us:
No one should be punish for the sin of other, this is justice.
Repent and I God will forgive your sins, this is justice.
He hates animal and human sacrifices, and never command such practices.
He never sent his son to die for you and me, but was sent to teach and guide and be respected as he said.
Sometimes we think, we’re more merciful than God .
If your baby who doesn’t know good and evil pushed a glass and got broke, do you punish him and never forget his evil act??
I don’t think so, but you think God will?
For you and others believe the only reason God sent Jesus to die for the sin which Adam did.
Why Jesus never once claim this reason or teach anyone about his real mission or even mention Adam once???
