Genesis 2:7 Explains Why Functional Information Exists In Biology

[VladtheDestroyer]

Because God took dirt, and repurposed it to create man.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

And thousands of years later we are able to see that, indeed humans are built from the same specific elements found in dirt, thanks to John Dalton(creationist), who formalized Atomic Theory in 1844 A.D.

Oxygen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Calcium ect. (not so much silicone, because we are carbon based)

Sal Cordova often points out we should be thankful God made animals similar to man, (DNA, same type of organs ect) because we can do experiments on animals and learn how the human body works. On it's face this seems to be a point that would only apply to modern man. But oddly enough, the butchering and sacrifice of animals is often a main theme of the Old Testament. God even uses a specific arrangement of animal parts as a sign of His covenant with Abraham.

So the Hebrews were certainly familiar with opening animals up and finding blood, bone and distinct organs. But one thing they would never find, is dirt. Making Genesis 2:7 out to be a rather bold claim.

However, the Bible provides the directiveness that allowed them to understand why this all is. The basic components of dirt have been reorganized into a less entropic state. Into a system which now has a purpose. So that it can maintain an image and allow us a temporary reprieve from returning to the dust from which we came.

 

[Ps82]

Love your post. I also love studying the topic in Gen. 2. I have a suggestion: Man, like a worm, produces dirt as they excrete, yet is correct that God used the elements of creation / ground or dirt and so forth to form a body for humanity.

Yet, there are two more components which God added. Before he used the ground elements he added a measure of water called a mist.
Then he added a measure of breath. Now, I take things literally which sums up this way: God used the elements of creation and a measure of water and the breath of life from God to form a Soul called a complete human.

However, I also see things spiritually and figuratively: God used the non-living elements he created (dust of the ground) after adding a measure of spiritual life (water)to those elements and formed a body which had life in it. It was only when God added a measure of life (a breath) into that living body that man/mankind became a completed living SOUL. Before the addition of a living body mankind was a spiritual life only.

The body was used for many purposes but the main thing at this stage was that the living spirit would be manifested in a visual manner within the place God had established for them.

Gen. 1 describes God's works which he would do. Gen.2 describes the works The LORD would do.

Know who The LORD is - is the key to understanding how the one God works as three. God created an IMAGE for himself before he shared that image/presence with Adam. God gave His created image an official NAME. When ever his super-natural image appeared within creation that was to be its name forever. The appearance of The LORD God is the way the invisible Spiritual Creator made himself known to the seeing creatures he had and would created.

Gen. 2 reveals that God the Spirit was manifesting his presence, as The LORD God, unto beings who could behold him. He did his time of work to manifest a Garden, and many animals which he allowed Adam to name.

Now, for an example: Our Lord Jesus, who was God manifested in flesh, healed a blind man. He scooped up some dirt/dry ground without life and then added a measure of spittle/spiritual life to the eyeballs of a man who had none. This was the same process The LORD God used in Gen. 2. This proved that Jesus was the Creator ... who happened to have come manifested in worldly flesh as the Savior.

One God: Existing as an everlasting Spirit, who was able to appear as the Super-natural LORD Father, and appear again as the mortal fleshly Son.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, AM the LORD; and beside me there is no savior. ..... Spirit, manifested chosen created super-natural presence, and the Son of flesh. Three but ONE.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

I have a suggestion: Man, like a worm, produces dirt as they excrete, yet is correct that God used the elements of creation / ground or dirt and so forth to form a body for humanity.

Sure but the Hebrews would have been familiar enough with the workings of our digestive system to know that the contents of our stomach, for example, are not necessarily part of us.

Yet, there are two more components which God added. Before he used the ground elements he added a measure of water called a mist.
Then he added a measure of breath.

That's a good point!

However, I also see things spiritually and figuratively: God used the non-living elements he created (dust of the ground) after adding a measure of spiritual life (water)to those elements and formed a body which had life in it. It was only when God added a measure of life (a breath) into that living body that man/mankind became a completed living SOUL. Before the addition of a living body mankind was a spiritual life only.

Sure. There is also Job 33:4, for example: "The spirit of God has made me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

The body was used for many purposes but the main thing at this stage was that the living spirit would be manifested in a visual manner within the place God had established for them.

Gen. 1 describes God's works which he would do. Gen.2 describes the works The LORD would do.

Know who The LORD is - is the key to understanding how the one God works as three. God created an IMAGE for himself before he shared that image/presence with Adam. God gave His created image an official NAME. When ever his super-natural image appeared within creation that was to be its name forever. The appearance of The LORD God is the way the invisible Spiritual Creator made himself known to the seeing creatures he had and would created.

God is a triune God who changes. God had to decide to create man first, before He could become the God who interacts with Man. I think there is enough of a distinction to be made between the two without having to theorize that God created a visual image for Himself in Gen 1 and that that was the most significant thing that happened during the creation.

God isn't called YHWH in Genesis 2 because Adam saw Him. There is no record at all in Genesis of Adam ever seeing God. Adam knew God by hearing His voice. Not by seeing an image.

Gen. 2 reveals that God the Spirit was manifesting his presence, as The LORD God, unto beings who could behold him. He did his time of work to manifest a Garden, and many animals which he allowed Adam to name.

Well..maybe. I would say God's triune nature is already revealed in Genesis 1. It's something like this:

God the Father Says
God the Son Does
And the Spirit confirms that it is so. That it is finished. (God's word does not return to Him void)

That is the pattern we see in Gen 1. And afterwords there is either naming or a blessing giving. God calls the light Day for example.

Later, men start naming things and giving blessing.

Adam's naming of the animals is significant. And it might not be just a coincidence that so many of the constellations are animals. The Bible says God named all of the stars and that they are a heritage to all of the nations. God might have said to Adam, "You see that star right there? I named that star and all the rest them. Now I want you to name the animals."

The first blessing giving by man was arguably given by Melchizedek. Later God blesses Abraham (the father of many nations) using a star analogy. I think that's interesting. God used an analogy in His promise to Abraham, involving things He personally named.

Now, for an example: Our Lord Jesus, who was God manifested in flesh, healed a blind man. He scooped up some dirt/dry ground without life and then added a measure of spittle/spiritual life to the eyeballs of a man who had none. This was the same process The LORD God used in Gen. 2. This proved that Jesus was the Creator ... who happened to have come manifested in worldly flesh as the Savior.

One God: Existing as an everlasting Spirit, who was able to appear as the Super-natural LORD Father, and appear again as the mortal fleshly Son.
Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, AM the LORD; and beside me there is no savior. ..... Spirit, manifested chosen created super-natural presence, and the Son of flesh. Three but ONE.

Sure. I think most of us would agree that Jesus is the creator. Our disagreement is only that I think you place too much emphasis on image.

Whose voice would you say Adam heard in the Garden? The voice of God the Father? Or God the Son?

 

[Ps82]

Sure but the Hebrews would have been familiar enough with the workings of our digestive system to know that the contents of our stomach, for example, are not necessarily part of us.

What we eat does become part of our physical being. We may eliminate the parts of our diet which we don't need, but we are certainly what we eat.

That's a good point!



Sure. There is also Job 33:4, for example: "The spirit of God has made me and the breath of the Almighty gives me life."

Yes, God gives of his spiritual nature and of life in measures. God created mankind male female. I believe that this was their first measure of life. God did not loose any part of himself to do so ... because... all things consist of God and are in God. He is merely able to allocate it to created things/beings existing within him.

God is a triune God who changes. God had to decide to create man first, before He could become the God who interacts with Man. I think there is enough of a distinction to be made between the two without having to theorize that God created a visual image for Himself in Gen 1 and that that was the most significant thing that happened during the creation.

I also believe we can use the terms triune and trinity to describe our ONE God. I don't know at what point God thought to create the human race, but I do know the angels existed before us and know that God already had his own image before he created mankind's presence. How? God tells us this fact. He said he would share the likeness of his own image with humanity and only then did He form man's image. That means his image came first and then he shared the likeness of it with mankind. God did not form an image for Adam and then form himself one after the likeness of a human. When our Lord Jesus appeared in flesh, he looked like God's male presence. In other words God didn't look like Adam, but Adam looked like God's presence. Colossians 1:15-17 puts things this way. KJV paraphrased: (Jesus) who is the image of the invisible God, (the image) which was the first born of every creature.. This seems to say that God had his image before he created the angels. What do you think?

Colossians 1:17 KJV And he (God the Spirit with his presence) is before all things, and by Him all things consist. God is much more than a created image for he is an infinite Spirit and verse 17 seems to insinuate that even his image dwells within him and consist of the essence of God. The ONE God created ONE image to represent Himself visually ... ONE God with ONE image represents him as the ONE and only God. Very apropos. He shared that image with Adam and with our Christ / Savior. There you have the first Adam and the second Adam who both favored the Father's image, which existed before the world was. God manifested his image to the patriarchs and prophets and even revealed his chosen name to Moses who wrote the first 5 books of scripture.

Ex. 3:19 Moses asked for God's name and God answered Moses. After God said, "I AM. That I AM." then he informed Moses v 15: "And God said moreover unto Moses, 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers .....hath sent me unto you: This is my name for ever ...."
And yet another time when God's presence passed before Moses He said : Ex. 34:5-6 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him (Moses) there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. 6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, ....7 Keeping mercy for thousands ...
but
Now, some say: The LORD God. Some write: YHWH. Some say: The Father. Others suggest: Adonai. But we can all get the point that God gave his created visible form a specific name.

God isn't called YHWH in Genesis 2 because Adam saw Him. There is no record at all in Genesis of Adam ever seeing God. Adam knew God by hearing His voice. Not by seeing an image.

Well, after God appeared to Moses and others and He informed Moses of the chosen name for his presence, Moses began writing the first 5 books. It was Moses who learned the name of The LORD?YHWH. And Moses mentions it first in Genesis 2:4 "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens...

Now, whether Adam knew that name I do not know but I do strongly believe Adam saw the form of The LORD God... because he heard finite audible foot steps walking his way ... and Adam and Woman hid! They might not need to hide from a God with a spiritual essence, but they certainly would have thought they could hide from a finite presence of a personage which they had seen. They heard the WORD walking. They hid from the presence of the WORD. Moses knew what he was writing. BTW, Jesus was said to be the WORD of God and he was seen.

Well..maybe. I would say God's triune nature is already revealed in Genesis 1. It's something like this:

God the Father Says
God the Son Does
And the Spirit confirms that it is so. That it is finished. (God's word does not return to Him void)

My thoughts almost match your ideas. I would say:
God the Spirit worked in Gen. 1.
The Father LORD God worked in his generations of Gen. 2.
Our Lord Jesus, the Son, worked in his day.
And the measure of the Spirit which Jesus left in this world for us and to be in us is working now.
All God working out his plans for humanity.

That is the pattern we see in Gen 1. And afterwords there is either naming or a blessing giving. God calls the light Day for example.

Later, men start naming things and giving blessing.

Adam's naming of the animals is significant. And it might not be just a coincidence that so many of the constellations are animals. The Bible says God named all of the stars and that they are a heritage to all of the nations. God might have said to Adam, "You see that star right there? I named that star and all the rest them. Now I want you to name the animals."

I agree with these two points you mentioned but they would take a long post to discuss.
1) Adam's naming animals is significant ... and Adam didn't just name animals. He named things and occurrences as they happened. One of my favorite topics.
2) God having named the stars is also important. Have you read these books? The witness of the stars by Bullinger and The real meaning of the Zodiac by Dr. D. James Kennedy. I read these two books after having a dream about a constellation which I had never heard of. Some one posting on TOL many years ago suggest I read the Bullinger book and it identified the name of the constellation in my dream. Really interesting.

The first blessing giving by man was arguably given by Melchizedek. Later God blesses Abraham (the father of many nations) using a star analogy. I think that's interesting. God used an analogy in His promise to Abraham, involving things He personally named.

Now that would make a book all by itself.

Sure. I think most of us would agree that Jesus is the creator. Our disagreement is only that I think you place too much emphasis on image.

Whose voice would you say Adam heard in the Garden? The voice of God the Father? Or God the Son?

I agree with you. Jesus was/is part of the pluralistic nature of the ONE spiritual God. The audible WORD of God was heard in the Garden. Every time the Father spoke people were hearing the WORD of God. When Jesus spoke the men of his day heard the WORD of God. When the spirit in us speaks to us we hear the WORD of God. Our God is ONE but know to us as at least three personages of the God Head.

 

[Right Divider]

Our God is ONE but know to us as at least three personages of the God Head.

You live in a bizarre fantasy world inside your own head.

 

[Ps82]

Because God took dirt, and repurposed it to create man.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

And thousands of years later we are able to see that, indeed humans are built from the same specific elements found in dirt, thanks to John Dalton(creationist), who formalized Atomic Theory in 1844 A.D.

Oxygen, Carbon, Hydrogen, Nitrogen, Calcium ect. (not so much silicone, because we are carbon based)

Sal Cordova often points out we should be thankful God made animals similar to man, (DNA, same type of organs ect) because we can do experiments on animals and learn how the human body works. On it's face this seems to be a point that would only apply to modern man. But oddly enough, the butchering and sacrifice of animals is often a main theme of the Old Testament. God even uses a specific arrangement of animal parts as a sign of His covenant with Abraham.

So the Hebrews were certainly familiar with opening animals up and finding blood, bone and distinct organs. But one thing they would never find, is dirt. Making Genesis 2:7 out to be a rather bold claim.

The term ground was used to represent the elements of our earthly realm which God literally chose to use to form man. I don't think it means every element but rather the specific elements. Also ground figuratively represented those earthly elements which had life added to them.

To me the term water represented not only literal H2O but figuratively also represented elements to which HE had added spiritual life

Think of the figurative meanings for ground (elements of our earth) and water (spiritual life) as you read Gen. 2:6-7. But first remember how our Lord Jesus told the woman at the well that he had water to give her that would never run out. Notice water not just a mist and that this water would be eternal. Most Bible students know that was speaking of eternal life not H2O. I have inserted my interpretations inside (...).

There went up a mist (a particular small amount coming up from the ground which was not a laying down of literal dew from the sky but) from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground (a first measure of spiritual life had been added to the chosen elements/originally dust now ground). And The LORD God formed man of the dust (lifeless elements) of the ground (the chosen specific elements plus added life), and (next the LORD God) breathed into his (man's) nostrils (IOW, the body had already been formed with it's working parts from the elements to which a small measure of life had been added) the breath (a second small level of life composed of figurative water and wind) of life and man became a living soul.

First the body lived and then became a living soul when two small measures of life were added to the specific elements called dust. Dust being the term standing for the elements without life.

We all know that Moses wrote from dust you came and to dust you shall return. Gen. 3:19
Now, the two measures of life (mist and breath) came directly from God ... so, where do these measures of life go after physical death?

However, the Bible provides the directiveness that allowed them to understand why this all is. The basic components of dirt have been reorganized into a less entropic state. Into a system which now has a purpose. So that it can maintain an image and allow us a temporary reprieve from returning to the dust from which we came. Gen 3:19

I see why you wrote "a temporary reprieve," but I would say this: The way our LORD put us together/designed us in stages allows both a temporary reprieve from returning to dust and an eternal way. He gave mankind a temporary reprieve from The Lake of Fire, but also gave some, "the saved," a way to be given an eternal reprieve and a chance for eternal life and a second body. Jesus said he was The WAY.

My thoughts:
Forming our bodies of the dust of the ground and then HIS cursing of only that specific dust of the ground:
1.) enabled God to separate our spirits from the curse upon the dust of the ground/only those specific elements of the earth from which our bodies were formed.
2.) allowed us to live temporarily under the curse as mortals on earth and to temporarily continue fulfilling our purpose of being full and multiplying upon the earth.
3.) This enabled God to place the spiritual life of humanity into temporary holding places until all things were to be made new.
4.) Some spirits go to temporary holding places/realms which I call the Bosom of Abraham and Hell.
5.)Some of us are spiritually snatched out of The Fire to dwell safely in Abraham's Bosom and others stay attached to the cursed dust of the ground into Hell to suffer while waiting on the end to all things.
6.) Waiting on what? On The Lake of Fire. When all cursed dust goes into The Lake of Fire along with other enemies of God.
7.) Then while spirits, who had been rescued or circumcised from the cursed ground, will be given new eternal bodies for existing with our Lord living eternally.

This was the extra measure of Water/LIFE which Jesus was talking about when he told the woman at the well about the MEASURE OF WATER/eternal LIFE he had to give her which would never run out.
8.) Now, Jesus explained what he came to provide. That other measure of life he had to give.
9.) He said, "I AM the WAY. The TRUTH. The LIFE.
10.) Even though God gave two measured levels of LIFE does not ever make mankind equal with God. It simply means that he made it possible for us to live as individuals IN HIM and HE spiritually IN US. The same way it worked with the Christ. Only with our Lord Jesus this was the truth: John 3:34-36 KJV.

Well, VladtheDestroyer, I've written a lot about this very same topic on TOL. I hope you can agree on at least some of it and I hope those posting on TOL will accept your ideas better than they have mine. I've enjoyed our conversation.

 

[VladtheDestroyer]

God did not loose any part of himself to do so ... because... all things consist of God and are in God. He is merely able to allocate it to created things/beings existing within him.

Mmmm, no. Ultimately it was God's self-sacrifice that saved us.

I also believe we can use the terms triune and trinity to describe our ONE God.

You say that as if there is actually a time referenced in the Bible where God did not exist as a plurality. There is not. How do you explain this?

God already had his own image before he created mankind's presence.

You're a bit wrong here. There is a reason the Bible specifically states God created Adam -Not the presence of Adam nor the presence of man. Man's presence is dynamic, as was Adam's, that is why we are all not still living in the garden of Eden.

How? God tells us this fact. He said he would share the likeness of his own image with humanity and only then did He form man's image. That means his image came first and then he shared the likeness of it with mankind. God did not form an image for Adam and then form himself one after the likeness of a human. When our Lord Jesus appeared in flesh, he looked like God's male presence. In other words God didn't look like Adam, but Adam looked like God's presence. Colossians 1:15-17 puts things this way. KJV paraphrased: (Jesus) who is the image of the invisible God, (the image) which was the first born of every creature.. This seems to say that God had his image before he created the angels. What do you think?

Again, I think you place too much emphasis on visual image. Image here is the form God created for His eternal Son to dwell in. You seem to think this means the Son did not exist until this image did. You are conflating visual appearance with what one is. With what we are and who Jesus is.

There is more that could be said here. But most importantly you should first understand that God did not create a mimic to take His place at the cross for Him.

Colossians 1:17 KJV And he (God the Spirit with his presence) is before all things, and by Him all things consist.

Colossian 1:17 is talking about Jesus. You literally just added "God the Spirit with his presence" to Paul's words to change the meaning of he says.

Why did you do that?